Sure you did.

Odd coment for someone who is a fan of FO:NV to say.

I did not same the game was bad! I said that it should have improved. My argument was not that it was bad, that instead of improving on past mistakes they made knew mistakes. And shared the games that could have been games to look towards when it came to improving on oneself.

Why they aren't exactly hidden away in some secret dungeon. If you explore you will find them.

It did improve in many ways, so implying it didn't improve at all is BS.

I disagree. It improved on being dumber.

Every game you mentioned has it's own problems and limitations. Of the games you did mention you only talked about things that game does that Skyrim doesn't and that's not really a fair way to look at it. There are things that Skyrim does extremely well that the other games simply don't have at all. None of them are flawless. All of them are enjoyable. I do agree that Skyrim could be better and more involving and it does have things that bother me like the endlessly repeated NPC dialogue that all but ruins all the towns for me. But all the other games mentioned had things that bugged me too. In the end we can't do much about the way any of these games are except to make suggestions here. I doubt the developers pay too much attention to most of it though. The only things I've ever seen them change because of forum posts were things that caused a total uproar but I'm sure there were things added or changed because of posts that we'll never know about. I guess it doesn't hurt to try but I wouldn't expect the next Elder Scrolls game to include all the stuff you mentioned from those other games. That's most likely not going to happen.

Oh look, another rant....

Lots of "improvements" are an opinion. The only things that are undisputed improvements are the graphics and the voice acting. Lots of things have been changed or streamlined, rather than built upon, which is obviously not going to make all the players of previous game happy.

i understand your frustration OP. I feel the same way, and have realized that I can honestly not change one thing about it, sadly. Bethesda will do what it wants with The Elder Scrolls. Just know your not the only one who thinks that Bethesda really took a plunge when they made Skyrim.

Well at face, this just seems like an opportunity to argue. There are a couple things I feel the need to point out though.

First, the claim that FONV improved over FO3. It's all just a matter of opinion. The way your character moves, jumps specifically.. still svcks. No improvement there. The map itself, actually took a step backwards. It didn't feel "open". You could go up the left side or up the right side with things off to the sides a bit. Just felt like two channels. The graphics, were pretty much the same, no big advancement there either. All in all, I'd say NV did not improve at all.

Now did Skyrim improve? In some ways, yup it did. They made changes in areas that they felt would attract to a larger crowd.( I even remember noticing some things from FONV in Skyrim , can't think of them now) Is that what they should do? In my personal opinion. Heck no! But from a business stand point, obviously yes.

And as far as the cosmetics of the ink blot test determining your path. Come on. It's a simple smoke and mirrors to look pretty. In the end you are still given the opportunity to say what you want. It isn't some big amazing thing. And really, is it needed? I doubt it. So many people complain about being stuck in one aspect.. and so this is what we get.

I love Skyrim. Does it feel like original ? Nope, not to me. But I still think it's a great game.

Hm. Must be a failing on my part then. I don't recall.

I said it from launch they messed up by cutting out all the filler and streamlining the system. Everything about the game, minus graphics, is miles behind Morrowind.
That said I still play the game almost every night.

X27 you are right about a lot of things, but I don't agree with others. I miss the attributs too and I don't like the perk system of Skyrim, Fallout did it better.
The companion system of New Vegas was good, although I perfer to explore the world on my own, therefore i haven't seen half of this.
But although New Vegas was a good game and offers a lot of good quest, it becomes a little boring after a while. Skyrim has a lot more to explore and accomploish then New Vegas. According to Two Worlds 2 and Witcher 2. I had my problems with both games and don't like them. Two Worlds had a huge game world, but it was much too empty and the game becomes so boring I don't want to play it further after the 2. Chapter. Not to mention the silly magic system.
Witcher 2? Really? If you don't like Skyrim, because it lost some of the rpg-content you must absolutly hate this game.
I do!
Witcher 2 is no rpg, it is a action game. And further more Witcher 2 is nearly the opposite to Skyrim.
Nothing to explore, no Freedom what you want to do, small levels this game is simple ugly.
I absolutly hated the boss fights. You do what the game wants you to do, or you die. Great if i want to see a fight with a given end I watch a movie, but I don't play a game. Not to mention enemies which appear out of nowhere all the time.

Yeah I really wish Skyrim has the courage to risk more rpg the game would be better then it is. This genere needs more good rpg games. Since Bioware produces more action games (I don't liked Mass Effect 2 too) then rpgs Bethesda is nearly the good producer left.
But although Skyrim did a lot of things wrong, it was still a game I enjoyed much.
No game I have seen in the past 2 years had more athmosphere, better music, more freedom or more breathtaking fights.
And for that, i forgive them (and hope more rpg is coming).

The voice of reason is often the most misunderstood.

Linky?

I really see nothing wrong with making games accessible to more people. I just keep thinking game developers like to think that the majority of gamers are stupid.

Making something more complicated does not necessarily make it better. IMO, the streamlining of OB over MW was awesome and the streamlining of SK over OB is even better. I like the skill/perk system, and it's definitely improved upon over OB, where all you had to do was run and jump to level. That was really weird. Good idea, made much better in SK.

Do you know how many people ranted over Unearthed Arcana when it came out? How many resisted the multi/dual class systems, new classes, THAC0 in AD&D, and so on. There will always be players who complain about RPG changes, especially in "worlds" they've enjoyed for so long. Heck I could NEVER get into GURPS at all, or Warhammer. Anyway, Skyrim is the first, IMO, REAL RPG that has been made available to the masses. Think about that. Thousands upon thousands of people who would NEVER touch an RPG, much less sit down with a bunch of numbers and rules geeks and some dice. Skyrim made the RPG accessible, and still thoroughly enjoyable to many of us "old time" RPGers. THAT is a major, major acheivement.

It reminds me of education. Instead of building up, they build down to engage the LCD instead of the HCD.

And that is why i'm playing New Vegas again instead of Skyrim. Well, that and having choices in quests beyond do it or ignore it.


Indeed, but that can only go so far. Only replaybility in Skyrim comes from different builds. But atleast Skyrims's perk system, though flawed, allows distinct characters. Not as much as New Vegas of course since NV has attributes and traits with perks. Skyrim has red, green and blue. Like another recent game, that got so bad rap the developer had to redo it

Skyrim is quite simple game in it's core, below all the shiny. And half-assed...


http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/11135

...but there's mods like that for completing those.

Except that this IS a game, something that should be played FOR FUN. Making a game more accesible to more people does not equate with lowering the academic bar so that more students get better grades. IMO, the only reason to negate or detract from a game's simplified interface is from a snob-elite perspective of more complexity = better. You really don't need 12 keys to perform 12 functions if those functions have conditions. Similarly, you don't NEED a dozen stats to distribute points to when they can all be summed into three stats that 99.9% of players are more or less going to distibute to evenly. STR without HP and END, for instance, is useless. No fighter class in his right mind woulld forego two of those and dump everything into STR. Yes, RPGers understand this innately, we've learned this since forever (in my case, wow, like 30 years ago) and now it's second nature. BUT, casual gamers might not get this. So, breaking it down to three choices, what's the harm? And that's just the streamlining of ATTR. The rest follows similarly.

nobody is forcing you to stay in the skyrim section go back to the morrowind section.

No linky.