[Joie Perez]

Totally valid point, but but the power armor? Wouldn't that at least cause them some pause? I thought the U.S. troops were gaining ground with the new power armor and what not? Either way I think its more than fair to say China was the aggressor when it came to Nukes....

[Jason King]

Oh no your right, the Chinese are the most likely aggressor and the US were making progress after deploying T-51b, I think that they were winning as-well.

But you were talking about morality and even the pre-war US was morally bankrupt.

[QuinDINGDONGcey]

Much of which can be linked to the enclave

[~Sylvia~]

Correction, we know USA lost the war. Chinas fate isnt as sure as the total destruction of the US government and the enclave.

[maya papps]

Which were members of the US government conducting these things through the apparatus of the United States government.

They didn't secretly annex Canada, they had the US Army take people to the US Army lab at Mariposa and actually the arrest of the protestors at the ICBM base where the Divide is in New Vegas was organised by the base commander there.

[sarah taylor]

I agree 100%

[Anna Kyselova]

Well the US forces in China weren't going to be much of a factor if the USA got wiped off the map by Chinese nukes without retaliating.

Also the US government in Fallout has always been quite monstrous. Collateral damage to US forces in a nuclear exchange is the least of their sins.

[Bethany Watkin]

The U.S. was approaching Beijing when the exchange happened.....most likely, the Reds played the "If I cannot win, everybody dies" card and launched while they still could. At that point everyone lost. The U.S. Retaliatory strike would have ended the PRC just as surely as they ended the U.S.

[TASTY TRACY]

1) The Enclave are only out to help themselves. Play Fallout 2 and see for yourself. The talk about helping and all that jazz in Fallout 3 was just Eden's propaganda. Their goal in Fallout 2 was to remove anyone not Enclave and it was the same in Fallout 3. Augustus had different views but he wasn't in charge.

2) They are the government of a country that no longer exists but in the minds of the Enclave themselves. No one in the wasteland gives a flying flip about The United States of America but for a few odd balls.

From the words of President Richardson in Fallout 2: " We were winning, too. And then those damn Reds launched everything they had. We barely got our birds up." And then "But at least it knowcked the damn Red menace back into the stone age."

[Cccurly]

China got hit by a ton of nukes.

But maybe (likely) their leaders were not insane enough to have their vaults as experiments but rather used for keeping the nation alive.

They probably had other things just like the enclave (oilrig, underwater base or whatever)

Yeah China must have had something and it cant have been as crazy as the US vaults and the enclave.

So either it was a loss for both USA and China. Or China won.

Those are the possibilities. All signs.point to China as a.victor (somewhat)

[Mari martnez Martinez]

Richardson is a rotten liar! Except for everything else he says which is 100% true...

[Craig Martin]

They were crazy enough to invade the United States in the first place.

Also they are the Chinese Communist Party, they are in real life what the Fallout USA is.

They lost?

[luke trodden]

You assume China had a Vault network? Also America by the time of the Great War had overrun most of China, America was winning the Sino-American War. Which would explain why China launched the nukes because it was their only card left to play. They were the spoiler, as in "We can't win, so we will take you down with us!"

America having successfully invaded China, if their was a "vault program" in China. America would have captured and or targeted them with their nukes.

Agreed. Invading America in the first place as an act of desperation. Their resources were running out (like everyone elses) and America had the Oil they needed to stay in power. So they invaded in the hopes they could take the oil and starve America's war machine so America couldn't retake the oil.

[Your Mum]

Thank you for bringing proof that China in fact won the great war.


Their vaults wasnt experiments!

They won!

The enclave really destroyed any chance of USA winning. Total destruction for the US government and nation.

[Baylea Isaacs]

Of course they had vaults etc in case.of a nuclear war.

No USA wasnt even close to winning the war with conventional weapons.

China emerged after the nukes, no matter how battered, in better shape than the USA for it was totally destroyed.

China won. Huh pretty cool

[BRAD MONTGOMERY]

Prove they had Vaults to begin with please.

Also no one wins in a nuclear war. "The only way to win is not to play."

[Chris Johnston]

Why did they have Vaults exactly? Vault-Tec was a capitalist enterprise on the surface and China is a Communist nation so...

Why not? As usual you never provide even a crap argument to dismantle, just that America wasn't winning.

Nope.

[Nicole M]

Vaults, bunkers underground or in the mountains.built.to withstand nuclear attack.

Even smaller nations have this. China and the USSR both had it during the cold war.

So China emerged victorius when the US was utterly destroyed. Food for thought

Or to quote richardson, they might be in the stone age but they survived. That is more than can be said about the US.

China prevailed.

[-__^]

Are you like a member of the CCP or something? What exactly is your investment in this?

[Crystal Clear]

And so did the United States of America.

[Mike Plumley]

This is a forum about fallout.

If it matters im from Sweden. I dont like socialism.

Are you, that is so desperately trying to convince me that china didnt have a single bunker, vault, mountain base etc, american?

Im sorry but even if hurts your feelings China won.

[Sophie Miller]

Yeah but they were used for crazy experiments and the enclave died out with any remnants of the US.

China thus won.

[Steph]

The US did and it didn't do them any good did it?

I ain't trying to convince you of owt mate, your pretty stuck in your thoughts to an almost pitiful degree over a video game.

China won. China won. China won. Jesus dude...

If you want to make assumptions on something we have no information on, that's your call.

[Gavin boyce]

The Vaults weren't and wouldn't have been the only "bunker" like structures built in America from the time of 1945 to 2077. There was only a 122 Vaults built and not all of them were for Experiments.

[yermom]

Well the enclave did survive with them if they hadnt waged war on the vaults afterwards to use their experiments the chosen one would not have attacked them.

So when chinas nation walked out some of it must have survived, so they won the war and wiped the US of the face of the galaxy