"Things are real if I buy them! Things are real if I say so! Damn the evidence! Damn it all!"

undeserved insults for someone speaking their opinion...real classy

Why insult? East Coast mutants appear in both Fallout 3 and 4 and are supa strong. The insult would be callin' him West Coast mutant, isnt it?

Fallout 4 is as real as it gets because bethesda owns the IP there for it is whatever they say it is..if EA owned they they would decide what it is if I owned I would decide etc etc...anyone trying to argue it isn't a "real" fallout is factually wrong ..it may not be the fallout type of game you want but it's still a real fallout game

We're not talking technicalities, bruh. Keep buildin' that strawman though.

how silly of me to bring facts to a opinion fight

I have to wonder a bit about the part of the discussion that references "changing the world" or seeing the effects wrought by the player character. I didn't play Fallout or Fallout 2, I started with FO3 and went to FONV before finding myself here in FO4. FO3 my character didn't really make many changes that would stand out, I just enjoyed exploring a ruined DC and did what I needed to in order to survive. As a West Coast guy, I found the environment fascinating.

In FONV, I think I had more impact. I assassinated House and Caesar, and nuked New California. Unfortunately, NPCs didn't seem to notice any of these people were missing and just went on doing what they had been doing. Which kind of made me wonder if in reality that's the way people really are... So focused on their own small perspective that the bigger changes to the world really don't seem to matter that much.

So here I am in FO4, and I don't know where following any particular faction leads yet (I haven't completed any of the quest lines) Yet I can see changes my characters have wrought in their world via settlements. Islands of peace and order defended with lethal force against the powers of chaos created by my character... How much more change would you ask for based on the actions of one person in a violent and lawless world?

Regardless of how the plight of Synths or the BoS objectives work out, the player character who builds successful settlements will have made a visible change in the lives of ordinary people.

Aside from that, I think that RPG boils down to being able to play a game and take actions based on the perceived motivations of a created character. FO4 provides the opportunity to find motivations in a different sort of way from other RPGs. You are given a set of circumstances, i.e. a family type of person ripped from their family and cast adrift in a world they know nothing about. The type or personality of the character then determines their motivations for all following actions.

Does he/she just give up on home and family and simply wander through life doing whatever? Do they say "My son is dead!" and simply move on, or do they seek revenge? Do they become cynical and jaded, refusing to help others unless their own goals (if any) match the quest offered, or do they become selfless with nothing to lose by risking life and limb to help others? You see the motivations for the RPG side have to be created in the mind of the player, and that's really what matters.

The only thing I really find lacking is the opportunity to become a Raider boss or a ghoul (imagine a player based character who happens to be a feral ghoul?)... What great fun to become a Raider, establish a hardy band of cutthroats, first building then enslaving settlements across the land... a thief who becomes a king! What could be better? But alas, it is not to be. Oh well, I'll have to settle for one of the offered options.

No. What you're doing is circumventing the discussion and debate with a strawman which has been repeated ad nauseum since 2007. Nobody...and I mean nobody...ever...is denying that Bethesda owns the property. That is not the discussion and it never has been.

there are two points being
1 it's not a real fallout
2 it's not a real rpg

One is factually wrong the other is a opinion...So which are you arguing

Willfully ignoring the point? Kids table it is, then. Let me know when you become capable of having this discussion. Until then, you have fun!

let me know when you can form a argument without resorting to sideways insults ..until then have fun!

This is one big thing I love about Bethesda's RPGs! Outside of the main quest (which I can mostly ignore if I choose), they don't force me into a story role like the story-based RPGs do, but instead create a living world in which I can create my own stories for my characters. To be able to do this in a post-apocalyptic wasteland as well as in typical fantasy settings is additional polish. Adding things like crafting and the settlement system give me even more opportunities for roleplaying a character that actually lives in the world, and in Fallout 4, the companions don't just stand around next to you all the time waiting for your next command, but they wander about using the crafting machines, sitting in chairs and having a drink. I had to install a mod in my PC version of Fallout 3 in order for my companions to do these sorts of things. Bethesda has really put a lot of effort into the details of the world of Fallout 4 which makes the vanilla game all the more impressive.

True, it may be difficult to play as a raider per se, but we can build up a settlement, dress up all the settlers like raiders, decorate their living spaces with guns and drugs and such, and when raiders invade? Well I'm sure there are other groups of raiders who want to take over what they've done, so they aren't just fighting good-guy adventurers who come along to loot them. It's actually probably more realistic for raider groups to fight amongst themselves than spending all their time on the rare adventurer or trader (who likely quickly learns to avoid that route anyway.)

And right now I have a companion who changes his clothes all the time. I had to have a mod in Skyrim to allow my companions to change their clothes on their own!

Kids table argument: B-b-but Bethesda owns it so it is Real Fallout!

Grownups table argument: How closely the game hedges to the source material is how truly 'Fallout' the game is. Let's discuss how closely Bethesda's 'Fallout' resembles the tone, atmosphere, gameplay, mechanics, stats, and features of the original game!

my guess the "kids" are right on this it didn't matter what a past company did because bethesda can change watever they want..ownership is actually all that matter bethesda could rettcon all of 1 and 2 if they..source material means Jack when it can be erased with a broad stroke of a pen...just like how disney owns star wars so it is what they say it is...I'm not discrediting your opinion or attacking you but it's still "fallout"...just not your preferred fallout...and yes bethesda has changed it entirely and as a result it's more successful than ever

It's easy enough to see the game's title on the package, and the company's name as well. Too bad that's neither the point or the heart of the discussion. It's a given and pointing it out is pointless.

A big part of the problem for you here is that you are trying to argue with Bethesda fans who don't really care about this comparison with the original game that you feel is so ultimately important. The game series has moved on and people here (on Bethesda's official forum) are enjoying *this* version of Fallout. In fact, a number of people might argue that Fallout 4 is more of a Fallout game than the originals simply because it's still being actively developed, unlike Fallout 1 and 2. You're unlikely to find much sympathy here.

Well, using philosophical logic equations, these people would be incorrect. It's rather simple stuff. And I'm not looking for sympathy, just discussion. Which, as it turns out today, I'm not finding much of either.

philosophical logic equations aka your opinion...and there we have it you think ppl disagreeing with you makes them wrong...I get it now

It is only incorrect in your *opinion* just like it is only correct in their *opinion*.

Oh, let's just clean this up, shall we?

On second thought, nah. Leaving it closed.