At posting in this thread.

there isn't much of a controversy. there's about 5 people here who come along and throw up in every thread, and start new "this game svcks" threads 5 times a day. steam is no different. just a small group of very vocal people.

very very VERY VERY vocal people. just so darn vocal those people are. because all criticism should be ignored

It's one thing to have some criticism. It's another thing to have *only* criticism to the point where it's their only purpose here.

yeah not giving name but i look different post there are always the same 5-6 ppl complain or hating the game.

And not i was surprise when i find some of those ppl on NMA forums too.

The "controversy" is nothing more than kids who grew up on shooters and wanted the next shooter vs the older gamers that remember playing the original Fallout and what an RPG actually looks like. That's it. Is Fallout 4 an RPG? Not in the least. It's a shooter and that's exactly what Bethesda put it out as; a shooter. It's Call of Duty: Wasteland. Nothing more. Are kids raving over being able to shoot up ghouls and super mutants? Surely. Are people like myself happy? No. If I wanted to play a shooter I'd of bought Call of Duty. Instead, I bought Fallout 4 thinking, "how bad can they mess it up? Really..."

So yes, if you're a kid that couldn't wait for the next shooter to get your jones fixed...Fallout 4 is great. If you were waiting for the next Fallout in the series to expand on the Fallout universe, you were sorely disappointed.

As for myself? I won't buy Fallout 4 DLC, Fallout 5, or anything else with Fallout in the title. They have moved from what Fallout was to making it a shooter just like every other shooter out there. Just like I won't buy Mass Effect 4 or anything else in that series because the company went from a great story and new ideas to turning 2 and 3 into... a shooter!

most of the negative "reviews" are from bent out of shape people [mainly older rpg players] because bethesda owns the fallout franchise and the "original development team" [black isle] no longer owns the right to the franchise, they have been complaining ever since fallout 3 was made, they flood metacritic with negative reviews on a game they haven't even played, they're just blowhards who don't like anyone enjoying a game made by bethesda that originaly owned by someone else, so its really a small minority in the big scheme of things, they are very vocal and are always saying "fallout 3 and 4 aren't really fallout games", they'll never stop because they can't live with the fact that bethesda owns the fallout franchise, there is no point in trying to appeal to them in any way shape for form, they will never be happpy unless bethesda gave the rights to the game to obsidian [which isn't probably going to happen].

Fallout 4 is a great RPG, it brought in new RPG elements that the previous Fallout games didn't have. Fallout 4 is far more RPG than Fallout 1 or Fallout 2.

But this is all subjective, because everyone has a different opinion on what is RPG.

I personally think of RPG elements when I get to build a settlement and craft custom weapons and choose different factions to help which changes the way the game world works. I don't think pen and paper RPG where it is all about customizing a character. I respect that opinion, it is a very valid form of RPG, but that doesn't make pen and paper RPGs or Fallout 1 and 2 style RPGs or Final Fantasy style RPGs or Mass Effect style RPGs or any other kind of RPG you can think of any more or less RPG than the others.

It is a term like immersion, it means something different to everyone you talk to, so you shouldn't cut down someone else's view of RPG by calling it a shooter.

i doubt you play fallout 4 and i'm not sure why you're on this thread , but you need to get over the fact that bethesda has the rights to the franchise, you just need to live with it and grow up instead of crying about it, you think you have some sense of entitlement?

How was Mass Effect 1 not a shooter? Mass Effect has always been an action shooter RPG, to think otherwise is incredibly weird.

Also I could care less about the shooting aspect of the game. I enjoy the numerous locations I get to explore and the different quests/factions I can enjoy. But I guess im just a 12 year old shooter kid huh

Well that part is not true at all. The gameplay is different, and their claim that it's less "Fallout" because of it, stems from the dumbing-down and removal of many features and mechanics. Fallout fan's biggest fears of Fallout deviating further and further away from it's roots and being an RPG are coming true. The amount of things that have been removed from 4 or simplified is shocking, and even beyond that, it somehow has less content than the previous games.
I mean how is it possible for Fallout 4 to not only have less quests than New Vegas, but it's quests aren't even at least detailed and non-linear. The majority of them are essentially just fetch quests or "Go to this location and clear out the raiders"
It's absurd how casual the game is.

I am horrible at shooters, and I find shooting to be the more boring aspect of any of these games, but I think Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, and Fallout 4 are some of the best games ever made.

It is totally clear that none of those games are shooters...

So if they are not RPGs, I don't know what they are besides awesome...

Disgusting.

Fallout 4 isn't even close to being the best Fallout, let alone game in general.

Also in the other thread when I asked why you're playing an RPG series if you don't like RPG's, I can now see why based on your taste.

@TeamBacon

So, let's take what they specifically did in Fallout 4:

1) Improved combat mechanics

Oh wait, no, they improved the SHOOTING mechanics.

2) They removed skills

Combining skills and perks into just perks you take every level removed an aspect of Fallout BEING an RPG dumbing down the game so kids could focus on shooting and combat.

3) They made the SPECIAL tied to perks

This forces you to put points into your SPECIAL whether you wanted to or not JUST to get perks for the skills you need. Or, sure, if you want to roleplay someone who can't hit the broadside of a barn, can't craft, can't pick locks... you surely could NOT do it.

4) They voiced the character with one set dialogue option set.

You can play a good character or a sarcastic good character. LOTS of RPG value there.

5) No karma system.

Yes, players like myself weren't happy when Fallout 3 moved to real-time combat over the turn-based of Fallout 1 and 2, but, they put VATS into 3 and NV so we had the same "feel". Fallout 4 totally made VATS useless. In fact, it made some of the SPECIAL useless. Put 10 points into Perception so your VATS accuracy is higher? So what. You hit VATS, the mob moves behind a wall, you shoot a wall 3 times. That 10 in Perception did you ZERO good.

So no, don't say "but but, it's all in what you THINK an RPG is..."... Fallout 4 is NOT an RPG. It's a shooter. They made it to BE a shooter. If people like that, fine. Some do and some don't.

even if in the next sentence you say that your opinion is subjective, that statement is just flat out wrong. like objectively false.

@alizarin327

You can doubt whatever you wish. I bought Fallout 4, played it, and won't buy anymore Fallout games. They've catered to the kids enough for my taste.

Someone actually said Fallout 4 was more of an RPG than Fallout 1 and 2?

I'm not even going to touch that, I'd be ranting for days.

Games were originally intended for children, despite the growing complexity of something like chess. But at heart, even chess is a child's game.

They made these decisions as educated ones, knowing the "kids" would like them. I hardly think it was guesswork, regardless of how much you may think it is an RPG or not.

the amount of wrong in that statement is mind-numbing.

Anything can be right or wrong if we are all just going to make up our own definition of rpg. It is as silly as having a conversation about what is more 'immersive'. Everyone has a different idea of what that means.

Yeah nah, sorry but you're outright wrong on this. You absolutely cannot try and tell me with a straight face that Fallout 4 is a greater RPG than Fallout 1 and 2. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

If anything, Fallout 4 is the furthest from being an RPG than any game in the franchise.

i'm saying that your reasons for it being more rpg than fallout 1 and 2 is flat out wrong though. your reasons for the originals not being so rpg is just absolutely wrong.

i might as well say that 2+2=5. i think that's the correct answer. it's more correct that 2+2=4.

it's all subjective though!

While there are some legitimate complaints like the dumbed-down dialogue and the hardcoded keybinds, I think Fallout 4 is still a great game. However some in the community (especially some people who hang out in the FO Series forum) absolutely detest FO4 simply because it was made by Bethesda, and continually have this wishful thinking that Interplay/Black Isle/Obisidian take over the franchise (sorry, not gonna happen guys get over it).

Despite the stupid dialogue system and other bugs, I still think FO4 has been a big improvement in a great many areas like finally making SPECIAL more relevant instead of skills (1 charisma and 100 speech anyone?), the gunplay is miles better, and I'm pretty satisfied with the graphics.

But at the same time, we no longer have low INT dialog and no SPECIAL checks in dialog.

One step forward, two steps back.

Also no perk checks in dialog either, and even Lady Killer no longer gives you unique lines, it just boosts your chance to pass the standard speech checks with female NPC's.

*Maybe already been mentioned,i didn't read all the posts.

I don't think they are intentionally leaving things out of the game just for modders to put them in,it makes no sense.The consoles combined are much bigger in sales than PC and they normally don't get mods,and even though we may get pc mods this time around,those mods will be cherry picked and they'll take forever to make their way over...so,no,it makes no sense.