They didn't denounce hammerfell the Redguard refused to accept the surrender and kept fighting for a few more years. Its not uncommon

I can't say they haven't made stupid decisions, that being one of them. Hopefully they work things out with Hammerfell before the Aldmeri attack again, at least in alliance of some kind against the Aldmeri Dominion.

Yes, the Redguard refused to accept the treaty, so the Empire had to kick them out in order to get the treaty through. -- Redgaurd's no longer part of the Empire because the Empire kicked them out

"Titus II renounces Hammerfell as a province of the Empire to preserve the treaty after the Redguards oppose ceding their lands." http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era

Cyrodiil, Skyrim, High Rock, and Morrowind are all that is the Empire. High Rock probably won't last long as part of the Empire due to the complications of Hammerfell separate it from the rest of the empire (probably join up with Hammerfell to fight). Morrowind is in turmoil and effectively useless, and Skyrim is in civil war.

Face it, the Empire is dead. It is completely dissolved and not united in any way, shape, or form. The Empire is just a shell with no real power now.

This made me totally hate Delphine.

On a side note, am I the only one hoping a future expansion/DLC will involve us kicking the crap out of those golden skinned Dominion jackasses?

I support this.

Oh, you're not the only one. Simply killing all the Thalmor I come across isn't enough for me. I want to absolutely CREAM their entire army.

Count me in!

Its kind of ironic that the oath of the stormcloaks includes a praying to Talos...

Which has happened countless times in real history when a war "ends." not everyone surrenders

What happens to the Whiterun quests involving indirectly the Jarl and his advisors when he gets replaced? Is there another quest giver or they're gone for good?

While I agree with the sentiment I think this is such a good idea that DLC wouldn't be able to do it justice; it needs to be the focus of the next main game.

That's not really the case here

1. The Empire threw out Hammerfell not because Hammerfell particularly didn't want to surrender (remember, on paper this was a treaty, not a surrender, basically a cease-fire), but because Hammerfell didn't agree to the treaty and so to get the treaty with the Aldmeri, the Empire had to throw them out.

2. Hammerfell continued fighting and was successful at knocking down the Aldmeri a peg or two. There is nothing that suggests Hammerfell is weak right now, rather that the Aldmeri suffered considerably at the hands of the Redguard and are the ones weakened -- if there was a time for a counterattack against the Aldmeri it would be now, but the Empire is too afraid and weak to attack.

either way, Morrowind is just going to be a bloodbath and many dark elves will die (well, those that managed to stay alive so far), so the Empire can't get strength from there. Hammerfell is going to get more militarized, and probably have some sort of alliance, if not with all of High Rock, the Orcs. Depending on how Skyrim plays out, the Empire may lose that too. Waiting isn't the solution for the Empire, as waiting isn't going to improve their odds of a counterattack. Hammerfell had it right, and it shows in their successful ability to throw out the Aldmeri.

The Empire also needs to realize most of the Bosmer want nothing to do with the Aldmeri (the coup the Aldmeri used to take over Valenwood hurt the Bosmer a lot too), and could be a great insurgent ally against them. If they can get proof that the Aldmeri had nothing to do with the moons returning, then the Khajiit will be angered that they were lied to and turn against the Aldmeri. That would leave the Aldmeri all alone and bringing the full force of the man races against them would easily squash them.

You have to consider where the Empire was at during the war though. The Oblivion Crisis destroyed a great deal of Imperial power. States that didn't really want to belong to it anyway decided to leave and the Altmer the conniving bastards that they are knew it was the perfect opportunity to strike at the bleeding the broken Empire and they managed to do so. The Empire needs breathing room but more importantly it needs some god of battle like the Nevarine or Dovahkiin. As it stands the Empire doesn't have the capability to fight against the numerically and resourcefully superior Dominion. They need breathing room.

Considering this, it is quite possible that the White Gold Concordat was crafted purely as a provocation to Skyrim to goad a civil war within the land. Whether the empire wins or loses may be irrelevant - no matter the result the empire is weakened through the conflict. Additionally as a term within the ultimatum was the head of every single Blades agent in the Aldmeri Dominion, resulting in a purge of all agents within their realm, removing a large potential for the empire generating instability from within the Dominion's borders. Perhaps a few Blades agents survived the purge and remain in the Dominion, but by and large the Blades soon will die out, and perhaps rightly so.

By your own dogma you should get out of the US and leave it to the Native Americans.



We were talking about Skyrim, a fantasy game, until you shared your arrogant and ignorant opinion. If anyone is guilty of promoting their ideology, it is you more than anything to go from a game to bringing politics into this.

As for your "look where it has gotten us" comment, you should elaborate so I know which of the many ignorant false truths you believe. In reality we are in the same place we were when we elected Obama, which was a recession, and without the support of congress due to conservative filibustering we haven't gotten anywhere. Essentially the conservatives, rather than voting Yes/No and doing their job to represent their people, simply refuse to vote. This in my opinion is treason. They were elected to do there job, and that job is to vote.

ENOUGH. This is a video game forum, not a place for holier-than-thou political dissertations.

Haha very correct.
That guy is a fool.

Haha, that's awesome.

The stormcloaks are a little too anti every other race for my liking

As far as I see it, the Stormcloaks are the Nord version of the Thalmor (minus ambitions to rule all of Tamriel, just Skyrim). It is somewhat true that they have a more justifiable right to rule Skyrim, but Ulfric can rot in Oblivion for all I care.

Anyways, looking forward to The Elder Scrolls VI: The Empire Strikes Back

does it not seem like the perfect setting for another akaviri invasion?

Tbh i had no problem with ulfric whatsoever, he's not exactly what i'd call bad though his ruling of windhelm is questionable, whereas the imperials are just trying to covet what little of their empire they can

copy-paste of a post I made in yet another Legion vs. Stormcloaks thread

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1266065-which-army-do-you-choose/

It seems that reading is beyond most Stormcloak fans on here as I have never seen this mentioned before - except by myself. "Ugh, the Nords just don't want to be Thalmor puppets, they're right to want to keep worshiping Talos." And whilst those are correct, the document states that the Thalmor assist the Stormcloaks to weaken the Empire and just take over the region anyway. Ulfric won't be so happy then will he? He and the Stormcloaks are doomed to failing all even in their potential victory.


Paarthurnax is a war criminal, he assisted Alduin greatly in killing humans and general tryany. Just because he wants to live in peace now and not disturb anyone we should just let him? Time seems irrelevant to dragons, therefore it being 5'000 years since the deed doesn't really hold much weight. Maybe I'm just too much of a Blades fan but at Esbern's request I gathered one of my fellow "Akaviri barbarians" - according to Algier - and put that accursed criminal down. Personally I also like the idea that the Blades are essentially just continuing the T'scaesci's genocide against the Dragon's, I mean we know that the Dragon's were certainly worth a total uprising in Skyrim but weren't they all scattered and enslaved back in Akavir so the T'saesci just followed them?

Do the Dark Brotherhood quests. There! the Empire gets some reform. Maybe..... If the new Emperor has some balls and support, that could make the Empire the clear winner.

The stormcloaks are some semi nice if a little xenophobic people lead by a complete [censored] and basically being tooled by the thalmor.

The Empire are a bunch of meanies but aren't being tooled.

I don't like either id rather be allied with whiterun but as it happens I ended up with the empire although I very nearly joined the stormcloaks, did the quest and everything just didn't take the oath at the end, I decided ulfric was way to big a [censored].