Why is this still being discussed, both sides have good and bad things about them.

The Empire provided unity for Tamriel for years, but they've fallen. It's not the Empire I knew and loved. It's not Tiber Septim's Empire. It's an Empire currently too weak to do anything but submit to the Thalmor for the time being. But then, maybe I'd Skyrim stays with the Empire, they can bring down the Thalmor someday soon. Them again, if Skyrim waits it our, by the time the Empire fights back against the Thalmor it could be very possible that Skyrim's culture will be destroyed. Talos may never be remembered and he is the only of the Divines that's earned the right to be one, the others just came into existence as Gods. But Talos was a man (or men depending on your belief) that rose into Godhood.

And on top of that the Empire tried to execute me even though my name was not on their list, and they had no proof that I was with the Stormcloaks. Plus Ralof was a really nice guy to me.

One more thing, spoilers about the end of the Stormcloak questline

I'm going to do the Imperial questline before I decide before which side I truly prefer.

Remind you of anything in real life?

How about... both factions get crushed and Skyrim becomes independent of both Empire and Stormcloaks, a defacto chaotic land?
Hail Sithis!

I won't disagree with that. Thalmor would probably do a deathblow to the Imperials first since they are more weakened, and focus a multi-front assault on Skyrim later.

Paarthurnax made a compelling case to me. "Is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil inclinations?" was his quote IIRC. He did warn that the Blades had reason to mistrust him purely because the power to rule and the desire exists within all dov. Might have been his using philosophy to point out that the Blades swore fealty to a line of dov, the Septims.

Posts deleted. If you've actually read the forum's rules, you should know that real world politics are not a welcome point for discussion on this forum.

That just seems more tradition really though. The original defeated Tsaesci Army swore fealty to Reman when he proved that he was a Dragonborn - a blessing from Akatosh no? - they then became his Dragon Slayers and personal guard - being such fine warriors after-all. The Blades, whom presumably were created after the Akavir ceased being such a major part of the Dragonguard, were the official spies and guards of the Emperor line. Esbern and Delphine aren't recreating the Blades like they say but really creating a new successor organisation, the Blades are after all - ultimately - an Imperial Organisation, once the Imperial Government disbanded them they can't just be "re-formed" by former members. The "new" Blades are really just something of a cult at the moment, devoted to Akaviri traditions and ancient lore.

You get what I am saying right? I'm not sure I've made it clear. The original Blades - and even their designation as anything "official" - are gone, these are just former members rebuilding something very similar; they're role is to quell the Dragon's return and serve the Dragonborn, which they do.

Fixed that for you.

Anyway, for all the talk about how the Stormcloaks worship Talos, their actions as it relates to Talos is comparable to a cult of Kynareth worshipers chopping up and burning down forests to kill animals and monsters that aren't worshiping her name.

Talos is the God of the Empire: To defy the Empire is to defy Talos. Even if you cannot pray to Talos, serving the Empire honors him enough.

The Medes may not be the Septims of the Third Era, but they do their best to salvage and rebuild the Empire of Tamriel once more.

While Cyrodiil may be the seat of the Empire, Skyrim has always been its heart. Want to know another name for the Imperial Race? Cyro-Nords.

Also, siding with Hadvar (I found him to be much nicer than Ralof) in the beginning of the game gave me plenty of reason to prefer the empire: Sure, you may not agree with everything the Empire does, but it's stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Fighting them isn't going to make anything better.

Talos worship will never go away as long as the Empire stands, considering that he has become incarnate once again. The question becomes... will he support the Empire this time around, or use the stormcloaks and start to re-forge a new one? The choice is yours, and yours alone.

If you have Skyrim's best interests in mind, side with the Empire, re-unite the land, and kill all the Thalmor.

I have no idea who my Khajiit should side with considering they both appear to hate me.

at first (before the game released) i was thinking going Stormcloak, but then i realized that they were all a bunch of racist Nord elitists. I mean I know that the Empire is ran by the Thalmor but at least they are up front about it. And the Stormcloaks???.... well

People saying the stormcloaks are xenophobic, you should live under the guidance of a foreign country/power has an autonomous region, or vassal state with a culture of your own, and tell me how would you feel about it?
If you have any love for your roots and have a chance to become independent, to become a country again, how would you act?
A nord pro empire is just a wimp. I also doubt "expeling" other races is even close to the stormcloacks objectives, even if Ulfric was considered to be a possible asset in the future, when he was under interrogation/torture by the thalmor, does it make him a thalmor agent? seriously, isnt it obvious he is following his own agenda, and in the same thalmor documents its explicit the elves dont whant either side to win the war, they just want a deadlock.

A culture in which killing the leader means you become the next one, listen to that guy being executed in Solitude; it is the traditional Nord way after-all - or so he says. Truly in the Fourth Era, Tamrelic politics are no more advanced than - strongest man in-charge.

They want a deadlock so that the Empire is weakened to a possible Thalmor attack, where would Skyrim be then? Facing an opponent that even the Empire couldn't beat.

I haven't sided with either Stormcloak or Empire. The Thalmor seem to have a hand in both anyway.
If I could find a better leader than Ulfric then I probably would lead towards the former.

The Empire is the world's best hope against the Thalmor.

And the weaker the Empire becomes, the more Thalmor's power grows.


So, unless you're an Altmer, you should support the empire


If the Empire grows strong enough, they could give the Dominion the finger, and reintroduce Talos!

Hint hint, Stormcloaks!

All the Altmer aren't supportive of the Thalmor, y'know?

After reading Ulfric's dossier from the Thalmor embassy, and finding out he was released by the Thalmor after being captured, and kept in contact with them, I joined the Imperials.

Want to know an older, stronger Nordic tradition than any [censored] Ulfric can dredge up? Ruling all of Tamriel from White Gold Tower, and keeping Elven omnicidal tendencies in check without resorting to genocide. The power of the Empire didn't start in Cyrodiil and spread outward: It started in Skyrim and conquered the southern lands.

Skyrim fighting for independance from the Empire because it's crushing their "ancient traditions" is like the New England states rebelling against the U.S. today for being a foriegn power crushing their "ancient traditions", such as witch-hunting, killing/forcibly displacing Native Americans, and hating the Irish.

The Empire wasn't founded by Cyrodiil going out and conquering Hammerfell, Skyrim, High Rock, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, Elsweyr, and Summerset Isle. The Empire was founded by Skyrim going out and conquering Cyrodiil, High Rock, Hammerfell, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, Elsweyr, and Summerset Isle. The empire is not a Foreign Country/Power to Skyrim - While Cyrodiil may be the seat of the Empire, Skyrim is its heart and foundation.

Man i love this game. xD They made the moral choices a bit difficult this time.

I still haven't chosen a side and I don't intend to in my current gameplay, but if I had to choose I'd be the imperials. I mean, just because some punks tried to behead me doesn't mean all imperialists are like that, and even before I came to this thread being spoiled about the Stormcloaks questline (I avoided most spoilers but still xD) I had talked to people on Skyrim and quickly got under the impression that one of the Stormcloaks main goal is to kick the other races out. Idiots. I mean, i know that they want to worship Talos but why all the racism? They sound like little children throwing a tantrum just because the empire doesn't want to give them all the toys they want for Christman, seriously. If they want to worship Talos by all means! Just don't be too public about it. xD

Furthermore, I don't see what the Empire is doing as being Thalmor's puppets. They are the loosing side for now so a few sacrifices must be made to preserve what little they have left. I too think that they are just buying time until they are ready to retaliate. Live today, fight tomorrow.

Now can someone please confirm/correct something for me plz. =P Ok this is sounding too stupid to be true but I might have some information wrong so I appreciate some confirmation: So, the Thalmor want to kill all Humans or/and conquer all Tamriel right? And Nords/Stormcloaks are Humans right? And the Stormcloaks want independence from the Empire, becoming a single country inhabited by Nords (read "Humans") only... weakened by the ongoing civil war... hmm.. I think you get my point by now. xD

Now after writing this post i find myself thinking the Stormcloaks are a bunch of hotheaded retards and that I want to join the imperials just to kick their asses. Or just kick their asses on my own accord. xD

Edit:


Timing though. Even if the Nords feel colonized they should learn to define priorities. What the SC are doing spells doom for their future. Not to mention the future of many others that have nothing to do with them and just want peace.

actually, i just re-read the file and it's not like that:

I thought a bit about this - at first I couldn't decide who to side with. There's a couple reasons I will wind up siding with the stormcloaks, though:
- The empire was pretty careless about imposing a death sentence on me in the first place. Yes, just one captain making a careless decision, but there it is.
- Seems like all the organizations that support the empire heavily are either corrupt or motivated by greed. The battle-born thing made me aware of this, but there are more. Of course, if you wound up siding with the battle-borns in whiterun you wouldn't have gotten all the dirt on them.

- Biggest one by far: Thalmor. I can't stand that guy standing in whiterun that raves nonstop about talos - in fact I'd like to give him a piece of my mind. But the empire wants him imprisoned and quite possibly put to death.

Screw the empire.

As if trying to cut my head off wasn't bad enough, I made the mistake of talking to the Battle-Borns in Whiterun, who are loyal to the Imperials. They are the nastiest, rudest, most obnoxious jerks I've met so far in-game. They are corrupt, disgusting, power-mad and downright insulting.I have taken to assassinating one of them in their home each time I visit the city.

I haven't joined the War yet, but when I do, it will be to wipe the Battle Borns and their Imperial allies off the face of the map.

It boils down to this for me.

The Imperial Captain knew that I wasn't on her list, and she knew I was caught crossing the border, YET she arbitrarily decides to send me to the block.

This is not lawful or even good behaviour. As an abuse of power it cannot be allowed to stand, therefore the enemy of my enemy is an enemy I trust more than my enemy. Stormcloaks.

The Empire is under too strong influence of Thalmor that I hate. Also, after I killed the Emperor, and prominent members of the Legion, for me there's no turning back.

I side with the empire for several reasons (all of which have been stated already *grin*).

- The Empire is not some evil oppressor here. They did not conquer Skyrim, rather Skyrim has been a founding part of the empire since its creation. Nords are as much part of the empire as the Imperials.

- The Empire had to sue the Aldmeri Dominion for peace, which imposed the ban on Talos worship. The Nords were also involved in that war, being part of the Empire, so Skyrim prevailing alone against the Aldmeri Dominion is unlikely.

- The ban on Talos worship was meant to drive Skyrim into civil war, and Ulfric is playing right into Thalmor hands. Divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book, and the Aldmeri Dominion pulled it off quite well.

- Finally, the best hope to defy the Aldmeri Dominion is a united Empire. If Skyrim becomes independent, then the Aldmeri Dominion can pick off the human states one by one. Granted, there is the chance of re-unification in that case, so ideally having a continuous civil war is the best situation for the Aldmeri Dominion as it will weaken both the Empire and the Stormcloaks.

So, in short, the worst outcome for the Aldmeri Dominion is for the Empire to win the civil war. That means they remain a strong and united opponent, which is likely to one day grow strong enough to initiate war again, at which point the terms of the White Gold Concordat will be rejected and Talos worship once more legal (Cyrodill is probably festooned with clandestine Talos shrines).

Itkovian

And so ten years after independance, Skyrim is overrun by the Altmeri Dominium?
The only people who win are the Stormcloaks - and then only till they fall in battle against teh Gem Haddar Dominium.