About that...the strange thing is that Frost, Elder and Ancient dragons know at least Unrelentig Force shout, they have it in their spell database, you can see it with the creation kit.
I still have to figure out WHY they don't use it...

Speaking of the CK, just for fun I gave Ancient Dragons the ability to use the Storm Call shout...then I went to Riften and spawned one right in the middle of the city, AWESOME

So I've heard.

Shouldn't Frost Dragons use Ice Form instead though?

So I noticed you said you gave Ancient Storm Call, did that actually work as intended? There was no huge issue with implementation? (Aside from probably killing every NPC within a square Kilometer, which he could have done on his own anyway)

Yep, I just created the dragon version of it, pasted it in Ancient Dragons spell list and it worked...the beast used it as soon as I spawned it and kept calling the storm every now and then.
Frost dragons should use Ice Form yes, I think the mods Dragon Overhaul and Deadly Dragons give them that ability...I tried giving them a shout to summon a Frost Atronach and that worked fine as well.
They just don't like unrelenting force

Level 40 is not too soon. The soft cap is 50, so I would suggest planning playthrus to end around there. The problem I have with master difficulty is that the large amounts of enemy health levels up your combat skills too quickly, so I usually plan to finish around 55-60 - that way I can fit in whatever crafting I want to do.

What they should do is allow you to cap xp gained from killing enemies - say if an enemy has 400 health, you could put a -25% cap on it and get 300xp. That might also solve the problem of becoming too powerful, as it tempers your combat skill levelling.

Well, that's good news. When I can afford a new PC that can run Skyrim with Justice I've got something to look forward to, but if it was so easy, maybe it's something that can also get patched in officially one day.

This.

it's funny when people use leveling exploits and then come here whining about the game being too easy...

This seems to me to have nothing to do with Master Difficulty at all.

Nothing.

This has to do with player scaling. Because there is a huge difference in power between a low level play character and a higher level character (regardless of the difficulty).

This was recognized as a problem in Morrowind. So Bethesda "solved" it in Oblivion. They introduced "level scaling" where the world changes with your character as you increase levels. That way, the theory goes, you will always have challenges. But people hated that because (1) it was unrealistic for the world to change, and (2) if you don't level well then your character can get weaker as the character increases levels, meaning some people avoided increasing levels.

The only other solutions that I see is to (1) make the Player Character's power not increase as dramatically. But then people won't like that because in a RPG people want to see dramatic progression in their character; or (2) have the world be very very difficult to start, but people won't like that because you'd be severely restricted in where you can go.

In Fallout 3 Bethesda had similar complaints (the game is too easy). So they added super enemies (Super Mutant Overloads, Feral Goul Reapers, and Albino Radscorpions) that didn't really make the game much harder, it just added some enemies that took longer to wear down. So that really wasn't much of a solution.

But in any case, if this problem is confused with the completely irrelevant mechanic of difficultly level, it won't ever be properly addressed.

when someone makes a post like this the true problem is missed: the mere action of 'leveling' doesn't make the game too easy. the over-exploitation of the crafts to 'level' doesn't mean anything unless you use those exploits within the game.

leveling up gives you perk points and that's it. would you expect a player who is at level 51 with 50 available perk points and no in-game use of the craft skills to be someone who complains about the easiness of the game? of course not.

on master, the game can become easy at absurdly low levels without the use of the over-exploitation of the crafts. with the use of over-exploitation players can become gods at absurdly low levels.

ignoring the reality of the poor difficulty balance in skyrim is for fools. and, what i'm coming to realize is that, for console players like me, the debate is worthy but the actual solution, when it comes right down to it, is to start playing on the pc.

No. Or at least partially.

On Master the difficulty is well balanced in my opinion (well,apart from some exception perhaps)

Even on level 72 my mage/assassin can be one-shotted from a powerful archer/bandit,a Falmer ShadowMaster or an Ancient/Elder Dragon.'causethe game is adapted to your level and you will find mostly this enemies in dungeons etc. at this point.
And 5-6 of those enemies at the same time aren't exactly a joke,especially without followers and Conjuration Spells.

I sincerely think that the problem here is that someone don't really knows where to stop with the "cheating",the enchantment of Armors and Weapons and the use/abuse of magic and perks. No one force you to get these,bear that in mind.

So if the game "seems too easy" to you this is due only to this choice. A strictly choice of the player.

However,what i really hate is the level scaling - if i had to pick up something in that regard.

Why don't remove this feature ? or at least introduce a "partial" scaling only when the player have reached a certain level ?

I don't use leveling exploits as I have already said in the comments.

I thought the game scaled enemies with your level?

At least it's better then Oblivion's heightest difficulty. Gimping is probably the way to go if you get too high in level.

Then the obvious innovation here, give people a dual difficulty option, one sets game beginning, one sets game ending. And be broad about it. Then I can personally choose something like:

Start..................End
Very Hard..........Easy
(classic RPG)

or

Start..................End
Very Hard..........Normal
(classic RPG with avoiding easy game ending)

or something that is only for the challenge:

Start..................End
Very Hard..........Very Hard
(hardcoe level scaling)

And many more other combinations, something like:

Start.................End
Easy................Very Hard
(Traditional Non-RPG linear challenge)

Could be fun. Let the player choose it.

Off course, I typed the experience. Normally, the world would stay as normal in beginning and normal in the end, and we would be the one progressing and that would read as hard to easy in experience, if the player chooses so.

They dropped scaling individuals. All spawn lists are still made to be 1:1 match to player level, i.e. level scaling. But they created an exception group for specific places that ignores this and assumes player level as a higher minimum, very few places are like that and that minimum is only up to level 25(which can extend to +10 levels with a standard spawn system, the boss of the dungeon). This creates some kind of static world, I think it roughly works.

After level 25, it is all level scaling until the highest leveled enemy which is something around level 48. Well, obviously player can pass that for good, up to level 80. You will experience problems in this part, game getting too hard or too easy based on your leveling efficiency, the famous efficient leveling problem.

I think it is obvious what is wrong here. They didn't design this game for a level 80 character. I think a level cap of 40 and extending that exception group with places which have minimums up to level 38 would work for end game balance.

See, it is all about relativity, if player gets to experience level 48 content in first part of the game(which would be another common(or rare but known) one shotting), that will set the standard hard for the game. And as player progresses, it will serve as a good measure for progression. The player won't think "the game is getting harder". Player will simply know how hard the game can be. This can be done without overdoing it like some other examples which were accused as limiting freedom to confined spaces. We should accept that being limited to content around our level is equally wrong if not worse.

I am talking about balance, player can still level up to 80, but simply get the power level of 40 of now. Pretty easy to turn numbers around without changing perceptions.

The right thing is to design the game world properly for once and see how it pans out. If your giant is level 32 and a vampire is level 48, then the player shouldn't be able to reach level 48, unless she turns into a vampire and should settle at level 40 for still being a human and expand horizontally with perks. And I am being generous here for dragonborn's sake.

*Numbers can be true or false, give or take...

Anyone remember the old http://www.ultimaforever.com/ games? No matter my level, nothing struck fear into my heart playing a game more than entering a dungeon room with a Balron in it. If there was more than one http://gigi.nullneuron.net/ultima/u4/u4beast.php in it, and I was even just a little unprepared, it was /reload.

Sounds like your problem is that you want to progress without really getting stronger. Classical Oblivion-esque scaling might actually be good for you, since you want a challenge throughout.

I'd say that this isn't a problem with Master difficulty, but a problem with how you like things. I'm level 35 on Adept (I generally only like to play games on normal difficulty), and I'm just beginning to feel more powerful. The soft cap is 50, so by the time I'm at and beyond 40, yes, I'd expect to be in your position--just not as displeased. What you're experiencing is normal.

Truthfully I wouldn't worry about how hard the game is, but how you approach combat. I try to make my kills more epic and strategic. The game is too easy, and all Master Difficulty is doing is Handicapping the player. All you have to do is overcome the handicap and then the difficulty actually drops.

that's what i slowly came around too, as well. it's why i created my hybrid character: now, i can just focus on using all kinds of skills and 'tactics' and fun in the battles and not worry (as much, lol) about the absurdly lacking difficulty balance.

this mentality and the resulting hybrid character literally stopped me from quitting skyrim altogether and brought back the fun.

I afraid of Oblivions difficulty remake. Thats not only because of level scaling, but the balance at all. All we remembered max difficulty, when you need a half of sword life (or 50 hits) to beat mud-crab at the begining.
I think TES needs some innovations at battle/skill mechanics, system of battle interaction. Otherwise the battles still will flat, simple and boring a bit.
I have never forgot the fallout 1-2 battle system, based on SPECIAL P'n'P. That was great, but turn based. There was no trace of it in fallout 3

you do know there is a difficulty slider, right?

so, the argument isn't just about needing x amount of hits to kill a mudcrab.

Completly agree
Bandits should still use steel and iron weapons with svck armors but being able to do dish out lots of dmg
We dont want bandits runnin around in ebony

So basically you want to be a dragonborn demigod that can call storms and dragons to his aid, but that gets his ass kicked by a random bandit in steel armor?
No thanks

The fact that the developers intentionally designed a game where virtually any race/perk/play style combo is viable at any level would make the difficulty slider changing anything other than the damage dealt/received be almost impossible.

Tell me why someone with sword wouldnt be able to kill you ?
Put no matter how strong armor on you in real life and you will be killed no matter what steel sword is
Problem with Skyrim is duels
When you fight 1v1 against a bandit it should be
you quckly kill him or he quickly kill you(They sometimes need 30 hits to kill me -.-)
When you fight against more of them then put down their strength
Arrows should dish lots of dmg
and dragons
well battles are supposed to be epic not just
Ooo now I need to hit him 2000 tiimes instead of 1000
All in all I think the game should be
either you quickly kill or quickly die

I mean, difficulty as "Health And Damage only" type is a wrong way for good battle gameplay, in my opinion.
Its too much unrealistic (50 direct hits of sword for crab or rat, or the enemies need to do 50 hits to you, depend on difficulty). There are no alternative moves except hiting it 50 times and run around. Low potential for player's skill. Damage passes through the shield. Enemy completely ignore the damage except special attacks, you ignore it as well. Etc.
Morrowinds visually-ugly fights was more fun, at least the shield was random but ignore the enemy's hit at all. There was random (or may be not) interruption when you or enemy got a hit. There was evasion chance depends of the stats. Sometimes the battles continued very fast, you could die fast, or you could win as well.
Thats why morrowind at Max Difficulty. was hard at start and mid, and fun. No lvl scaling, and nice and logical range of npc's and creature's strength. Its was much more interest of growing your character.
Gotic's 1 and 2 parts was as well as morrowind, but by a bit different way.


sorry for such an english