Ok i really hope you can understand where i am coming from. That is exactly the problem i am facing: choice.
I strictly want the choice to play skyrim using whatever means i wish, with the gameplay bieng difficult.

We do not have this choice. I have never used a deadric weapon and all i am trying to say is that i wish i could.

I wish that to beat the game on the hardest difficulty istead of shunning certain aspects of the game you have to combine them and pool from different resources and make an extremely strong charactor to survive against alduin who is the freaking world eater. Thats all im asking for. For example: If i face a dragon priest with leather armor and a hunting bow, i want to not be able to stand a chance.
I want to get excited and feel like i found an amazing help to me when i discover bracers that improve my one handed attacks. Istead of how i feel now " ohh i cant use those, ill be to powerful." I feel that this is a legitimate desire, and i hope you can relate to where i am coming from.

Problem is now you are in a distinct minority, and difficulty slider (being what it is) (more hp/less damage) cannot cater.
What would be required for this would be "meaner enemies" if you get my meaning.
Enemies that do not let you run away to regen, or do not just let you sit behind a rock to avoid them. Enemies who have unexpected gear (I.E. this bandit has a flamesword), enemies who cast light to route sneakers out of their corners. (better anti-stealth AI) ect, ect.
Better AI is what is needed for a majority of these complaints, and I am in the same crowd.

No matter what slider I am on, it doesn't matter, the enemy attacks are patterened, and they always respond in set ways to certain stimuli or actions, once you know these things all difficulty is doing is making them take longer to kill.

This^. Last night I made a legendary ebony warhammer: damage 83, 20 points worth of fire damage. I also made a set of legendary ebony armor that I then enchanted to hell and back. And dammit, I'm using the stuff. But I also acknowledge that 95% of the challenge is now officially gone from the game.

















At level 39. On Master Difficulty.


That's ridiculous. My character is less than halfway to its potential but the challenge is gone. That svcks, and there's no good argument to suggest that it doesn't svck.

Yes, it's nice to one-hit wolves and be able to look forward to killing cave bears for their souls. That's good. But at this point in the game (39th level) I've now seen and fought against every possible monster that exists in Skyrim and I've beaten them all multiple times. AND, I haven't completed a single faction questline. Not one. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've done more than two quests for any faction.

I'm sorry but the game is underdeveloped in this regard. There aren't that many enemy types and less than halfway through a character's potential they're all very beatable on the toughest difficulty setting. Hopefully this gets fixed someday.

Yes!, great to hear that bud, keep playing

@Bacillus

If i were a betting man, i would bet the DLC is catered to high level play, given that a bunch of us will have god characters already... Whenever the DLC comes.

But those things should be necessary in order to be able to beat higher level enemies. Otherwise, what are they there for? In my post previous to this one I levelled my way to Ebony Smithing honestly. I didn't grind daggers and the like. I went to ruins and mines and collected the materials. I then made either armor or warhammers and sold them, keeping the best for for my character. I also enchanted as much of the stuff as I could in order to get a better price. That's not exploiting the game (at least the way the term is used here), it's simply using what's in it in order to progress the character. That shouldn't result in the challenge being completely lost at relatively low levels.

The character should need to progress in armor, weapons, skills, etc, in order to survive against higher level opponents. As mentioned by someone else, you shouldn't be able to go up against a Dragonpriest while wearing armor made from rabbits, a bow from hickory tree, and some sharpened sticks, and expect anything except to be turned to ashes on the spot.

It's not a complicated issue. It has nothing to do with game balance. Master difficulty should be extremely hard even if you 'exploit' crafting and build the best possible character. That's the only reason for Master difficulty to exist. To make the game very hard. There are already four other settings for people who don't want that kind of challenge. Go play one of those settings. Don't tell me I'm not allowed to enjoy a good challenge and use all of the game content because you prefer to be able to beat everything in the game by level 40. That's. Why. Adept. Level. Exists.

Players should not have to choose between challenge and content. If you have to avoid using game content to make the game challenging on the highest difficulty setting, the problem is with the game, not with the player. I don't know why this isn't obvious to everyone.

I'm playing Master with 100 Health and 100 Magicka so that I can use whatever kind of gear I want and take along a companion, and I don't exploit crafting. I rarely even use any of the crafting skills. Most of the equipment that I and my companion use were either found or purchased from a merchant. I'm level 43. The game is not hard enough on the highest difficulty setting.

yeah thats true, i dont really have an answer as to fix the problem. i dont really know much about game balancing, but i hope the creative people at bethesda could think something up. I kinda like the idea of enemies having stronger powers, not just hp. like better shouts or something. more diversity in enemy powers could make the game harder, and they can try and get the AI out of the patterned attacks that you mentioned. Hope they try something for the dlc or a patch, if not i hope at least for the next title!

If enemies scale with you then there is no point to leveling, it is always the same. The way I look at it in Skyrim (as in Oblivion), once I struggled to level 40+ and can pretty much easily handle 90% of the enemies, that is the reward. It is then, as a hero, that you seek the rare equals to you, making the game easy for the most part, and a bit boring.

So if you ignore level and instead concentrate on hours played, where you want 200 hours of challenge to level 40, then you need to use a skill leveling mod to slow things way down, or get mods that toughen your opponents (like deadly dragons).

In the last game I played, after level 40 I just became a dragon hunter (but still found some challenges, especially among mobs). I also play on master difficulty and use Phitts alchemy where instant heal potions are extremely rare (i may have one) and only have heal over time potions. Good balance.

Bottom line, there is so much to do in Skyrim that at level 40 you still have 50% of quests to do which are now very easy. Someone needs to make a mod to get rid of the dungeon level locking.

My 2 cents

I actually only changed the setting to Master when I hit level 30. Since then I have been challenged quite a bit. I'm level 51 now and I can still get creamed by an arch mage or vampire in seconds if I don't play it right (I've even chickened out in some vamp lairs and just conjured daedra with my handy-dandy Sanguine Rose). Also, when up against ancient dragons, if I'm not paying attention, they can jack me up pretty badly.

So, I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say the game is simple even on Master. It's been challenging enough for me and I'm so happy that they have that setting.

Bethesda really didn't think smithing through. I appreciate how unshackled the system is, but truly breaking your character needs to happen more in the mid 60's rather than the mid 30's.

The only real answer is to half all of the fortify smithing effects, which would probably overgimp lower level players. Working around that, instead of going off %'s, Some of the Fortify Smithing effects could be flat +(skill) to make it curve more aggressively at lower levels, and wane down at higher levels.

Changing enemy behavior, with notable exception given to dragons, isn't really solving any problems. The non-animal enemies are actually pretty smart, smart enough to pose a threat if you didn't kill them in 1 hit with your 309DMG Daedric Sword.

I've played a "Gimped Smithing" Character, and it really does change it significantly. For the Record, Gimped-smithing is really only just not using the perks effects, and mostly store-bought skill bosts (Peerless smithing equipment). I think I had my Daedric Sword at about 120 damage, and that felt right. Stuff died fast, but slow enough that they could attack, and without smithed-out armor, their hits were still quite strong.

Its not even exploiting crafting thats broken. You can use it normally and become god.\

Also, without crafting at all a few vendor items Master can become easier than normal of other games. (on vanilla)

There should have been effect% caps or 2 more difficulty levels.

Artificial caps are a lazy solution that does more harm than good. Oblivion taught me that.


I don't have a problem with "Becoming a god", it's just how early that happens. I can't name a game I haven't "Become a God" in, just by skill alone. From Armored Core on the Playstation 1, to Dark Souls on the Xbox360.

I don't even deal in exploits either. I wish all exploits could be removed from all games personally, but their generally optional. There's no difference between abusing Fortify Restoration and using TGM in my book, except one takes a bit longer.

K, I'm leaning to your gameplay being vastly different from everyone else's right here. Are you using an essential companion and purely staying in stealth, and using archery/dual cast destruction and restealthing? Because otherwise the math is baffling me.

100 Health not near armor capped means you're in one-shot category from an awful lot of 40+ enemies. Draugr Deathlord and Death Overlord archers will absolutely gib you, and its not always easy to tell when they've come in line of sight. Ancient Dragons will one-shot with power attack, and normal attack could be close depending on your armor. Without impressive magic resistance you're in trouble if they make 3 passes with breath before landing. Big Forsaken encampments with dual wielding briarhearts and and ravagers, supported by archers with decent bows (has happened twice so far) can get brutal quick. And that's with armor cap and 600-ish health. I don't use companions or summons on that char, but still you're describing someone who dies in one hit, which may be your playstyle. But that's not typical to a fairly open rpg, they don't balance for that.

Looks like Plebeian is saying something similar, but sadly ancient dragons can be cheesed fairly easily. (archers I find *much* more deadly, esp. ones in pairs will full fus-ro-dah available) Keep running away, don't let them close to melee, stack marked for death (the increased damage taken never expires, and stacks) and kill them with 5 decent (as in, not legendary/uber) bow shows. Ancient dragons at 75%+ magic resistance are a joke, which you want on master difficulty regardless.

I realize it does, but why does Marked For Death stack in that way? I know it has a hidden Shout Resistance reduction, but unless you can push your enemies AR into the Negative, I don't understand why a few Krii Lun Aus's make a Dragon that normally has around 3,000HP die in one hit from a weapon with 27Damage.

join the club. it's amazing and mindboggling that people actually think they have a legitimate argument when stating that the difficulty balance is fine or that there are acceptable ways around it.

i see you're doing m/h/s manipulation, as well. personally, i've been adding health exclusively at the very beginning levels, since, that's really skewed and then trying to find that right time to then start adding stamina and magic (even for non-magic characters) so that it remains difficult at later levels.

Having to really gimp yourself in such a severe way takes away from (in my opinion) one of the most rewarding parts of the game. I love the character development system of Skyrim. I think there's a fine line between "Gimping" and "Not taking advantage of". I just opt of of smithing perks but use everything else. There is a legitmiate tradeoff at least, since every perk not used in smithing (Except for the Arcane Blacksmith) goes somewhere else.

It's a fantasy game, not real life...
In the scenario you describe there's no purpose in leveling or even in upgrading your equipment....a random bandit with a rusty sword can kill you in one hit...
And you want a fight with a dragon to be epic?If a bandit can kill your level 60 Dragonborn "quickly", then a dragon could just land on you and crush you to death...you survive the crash?His breath will disintegrate you and melt your armor.
Total lenght of the fight...5 seconds.

Luckily, this is a game so a random bandit with a rusty sword cannot kill my lvl 50, fully armored, stormcaller Dragonborn...

Most things can kill me in 1 or 2 hits...if they catch me. Archers are definitely the most dangerous opponents in the game. I have 100 Magicka. Dual-casting Flames isn't going to do me much good on level 43. I have no perks in Sneak/Archery/1H/2H/LArmor/HArmor/Destruction/Restoration, so no benefits there. My stealth attacks do 2x damage. None of my equipped items have resist magic. I use resist fire/frost/shock potions instead. I use a companion, Novice and Apprentice level summons, scrolls, potions, and shouts. I'm very good at avoiding getting hit. I hang back, use poisons, shout people off their feet and power attack spell casters with 2H and fortify potions. I use Ethereal and sprinting to avoid dragon breath (among other things). It's not hard to do. Then I hit with poison arrows or staffs. Most of my poisons are taken from fallen enemies (falmer, frost spiders) or scavenged from dungeons as I have a relatively low Alchemy. I use traps and enemy creatures if they happen to be handy. You'd be surprised what you can accomplish with no health or magicka to speak of. I die all the time, but that's okay because I'm not having fun if I'm not fighting for my life.

In any case, my playstyle shouldn't be an issue, should it? It shouldn't matter how a person plays, Master difficulty should be difficult enough that no one playing on that setting can make their character OP, no matter what they do. That's why we have lower difficulty settings, so that players who do want an OP character can have that experience. (And I've intentionally avoided OP builds.) It hardly seems fair that everybody who wants to be OP can do so without batting an eyelash (since every difficulty setting supports it), but the players who don't want to be OP but who still want to enjoy all of the items and mechanics that the game has to offer can't do so, even on the hardest difficulty setting. It's aggravating for players like me because there's no reason for it. It's a blunder arising from indifference and could easily be fixed. I can play my current character just fine on Master (though it's starting to get too easy) but that's only because I've intentionally gimped her to make her more like an ordinary person. There's no way this difficulty setting would be challenging enough (for me) to play a perked out mage, warrior, or assassin. I would have to find less logical ways to gimp them.

I've put every single point into Stamina (level 43, Stamina 520). Honestly, I don't think it makes a lot of difference. I thought not putting points into H/M would really gimp me, but I can outrun almost anything and powerattack enemies into oblivion (not to mention carry more gear) with high Stamina. I think all of the attributes are fairly well-balanced, it just determines how you go about combat. I sprint in and out of combat and power attack spell-casters with a 2H axe. I use my companion and low level summons (Flaming Familiar ftw, love that little hand-grenade) to distract enemies (and, when I'm lucky enough to stumble across a low-level enemy, Frenzy and Raise Zombie). It also helps to know when to use Heal Other on your companion.

As long as you don't care if the character dies or not, it really doesn't matter where you put the points. The only reason I still stack Health is that I play Dead-is-Dead and need to avoid being in one-shot situations. That's also why I still employ crafting, although my experiences on low-level 2H melee characters have shown that it's eminently possible to not do so and still survive, provided you actually pay attention.

Which is good for those who want more flexibility in their gear choices, but bad for those who want all that survivability to actually matter. In fact, most heavy armor is a complete waste of carrying capacity to wear, since you're going to be well over the cap without even trying; my lone Daedric-wearer only does so because her role calls for it. At least part of the problem is that the equation is set up in such a way that the cap is far too easy to reach; it's very easy to make it significantly harder to reach the cap, and doing so greatly increases the worth of the top-tier armors since you now need them to be able to reach it. At the same time, though, doing so largely guts the lower-tier armors, as they can in no way stay competitive, which is bad for those who like having flexibility in their gear choices.

Which brings up the question of just how flexible gear choices should be on Master difficulty. I would say 'not very', since the point is that you should need the better stuff in order to get by. I do realize that this would somewhat stratify gear for a given archetype, but then any warrior with a grain of sense would want to have the best possible armor he could get prior to delving into some godforsaken hole in the ground.

The only problem I have with Master difficulty is that - due to the nature of you hitting softer, while enemies hit harder - it seems pretty impossible to tank.

I mean, maybe I'm just doing it wrong, and making my build wrong, but in a bit of a test play through, even with full armor and putting every level up point into Health, my Health was still dropping fast anytime I was the focus of the enemies attacks.

I will concede, however, that my perks were being distributed between both magic and combat skills, so it's possible that by not investing as many perks into, say, Heavy Armor as I possibly could have, that hurt my tanking abilities.

It's entirely possible to tank with shield spec. You can reduce damage taken to 0% with higher quality shields while blocking. However, it is very hard early in the game without abusing smithing to hit 567AR. Tanking early requires a great emphasis on Shield enhancements (Block% and MDT-% being probably the best)

I thought the most was an 80% reduction. That means 20% not 0%.

No, that's the armor cap. You can also stack on a Shield spell (Ebony Flesh, for example) to boost it to 85% or or so, and then the blocking reduction lowers the damage to a point where the auto-regen compensates for any fractional HP loss, but only while blocking of course.

Blocking is still imperfect in that situation though, A power attack can drop your guard and open you up to another attack. I think the original "Master" Block perk, Riposte was supposed to increase the damage done to enemies during a stagger. I really wish they had kept that Perk in game.

I guess I need to look into this more. I am currently playing a Shield type char. I understood the cap to be 80%, be that armor, magic, and/or shield. Plus this "Blocking" addition is interesting. If it in fact works that way.

I will research this now.