Spell crafting is completely lore friendly. I just thought I would reiterate that point.

The loss of spell crafting is sad but most people play Generic Nord warrior 1,111,111 so they don't care.

And how does that change the fact that you can't hammer together a piece of leather armor? If they went back to the Daggerfall system where you paid someone to make the spell for you would that be ok? I really don't care how they implement or abstract it. I just want it back.

the problem with spell making was it was so rigid and spread sheet like it did the opposite of what it was mean to do which is make you feel like a mage. but instead of thinking about your spells your wondering how high you can get the numbers and still have enough magicka to cast the spell. and lets not forget how boring the spells where they where just balls of different colored light with different magnitudes durations and radius's thats it. no stream spells no wards no centering around the caster (without hurting the caster) no cloaks and no runes nothing but ranged blobs cast on self or touch spells of varying magnitudes radius's and durations. maybe with the next game that will be on an all new more powerful console gen they will be able to have spell making and non boring spells.

There was nothing spreadsheety about SC.

What people like you fail to realize is that the system is not to blame. Just because it function like that in one game, does not mean it needs to function the same in another. People do not want a copy paste job of the same SC. They want the ability to SC. If you want to introduce an improved version, great. Customizing particle effects, origin of spell cast, animation sprite displayed, colors used - all that cosmetic stuff, take a cue from City of Heroes. You can do all of those things easily in the game. As far as "what" the spell does, you need to break it down. Is it a Touch effect? AoE effect? Is it beneficial? Then you apply rules to it. Does a higher value correspond to more magic cost? Do you place a limit on this? Etc.

You mean exactly like the current enchantment system?

...
Not everyone links how pretty something is with how fun it is. That doesn't even matter though. We already have the prettier spells, so why can't I make a blue stream that does ice damage? Or even a flamethrower spell that uses more mana and does more than 8 dps?

Use a bit of imagination - if you don't want the gold to drive the creation of the magic, could that numerical value be a convenient representation of the time and resources you need to pool together and burn through to make the spell? It's really not anywhere are arbitrary as boosting a skill by opening a book without reading it, paying a trainer for the same thing, or learning magical properties by eating the raw ingredient (most residents of Skyrim must be exceedingly well versed in the apothecarial properties of wheat and chicken eggs shortly after being weaned off their mothers' milk).

what I loved about spellmaking was it was personal to you and it was probably the most customizable feature in oblivion I loved making spells and testing them It made me feel like I was learning the effects and how to use them how to combine them and they just felt personal heck I havn't eveb used invisibility when I have it when in oblivion would make invisibility spell or a destruction spell I would use it frequently because it was my spell my own personal touch on the game

Yet it worked. Now we have a problem with the more powerful destruction spells being mostly indiscriminate area of effect spells, which is not useful when you have companions or escorts in tow.

Also Master-level spells are different than lower-level spells:
Always require both hands (and therefore cannot be dual-cast)
Cannot move while casting.
Are interruptible.

Problem is that I think archery is a bit too good as well, although you have to put some perks into it to make it happen. As for smithing, I still think I level up too quickly from simply using then, which I can further exploit by crafting cheap things (if I wanted to). I haven't done enchanting, but alchemy seems somewhat better. However, it should go so slow in the end that you'd pretty much have to reach only only by paying for it. Additive stacking is also questionable, at least if enchanting was as free as it used to be. Maybe the craftability limits does the job, I don't know.

What if only rune spells were upped in pure damage? I mean, they take a little more effort to setup than blast spamming, and does require more thought to use well. Why not make them, and only them, more effective? At the same time, maybe scale down a bit the damage dealt with a bow when enemy have closed their distance, putting emphasis on poison use and/or a secondary means of damage (like current mages have to do).

We traded the real "magic in magic" for this garbage new system. What a joke.

So your main problem was the gold? The links provided exactly what magicka is.

Sure it would be great to manipulate magicka but as it was the best thing for our mages. Gamey what is that. It added options and allowed us to reflect our character threw our spells. Without magic its to simplistic and lacks depth.

Looks interesting, but I will pass. Spell creation added depth and personalization, sure it could work with what we have in Skyrim, but why stop there they can add back in the old spells we lost.
It was not spread sheety, it allowed customization.

this Todd said that it felt like you were doing math not magic well apparently Beth svcks at math so we should be able to do math for ourselves not have their bad math ruin our game

Bethesda must svck at math, the system simplistic and easy to grasp.

Or they assumed their newer, wider market would be, which is what I think. I mean, Todd tried to say people ruined their builds in Oblivion with Birth Signs. Who the hell is Todd defending here, people that didnt read and just started mashing buttons at character creation? Its obvious from their PR what their prerogative was.

Todd and Bethesda have lost their vision of the past games.

Their prerogative, make everything extremely simple.

I'd imagine that a mage that wanted to survive for long would spend a lot of time thinking about spreadsheety issues like magicka cost, duration, intensity, and the balance between them. A mage who frequently develops spells would probably kill for a good spreadsheet app. Mages who don't think like that probably blow themselves up pretty quickly. Or get eaten when the spells don't work as expected.

But spreadsheet type calculations don't get shown in movies because they're boring (like scientists, engineers, computer programmers, etc.). So, despite the fact that a spreadsheet is an efficient and fast way to precisely control your customization, I can see that it doesn't appear mystical enough in a Hollywood sort of way.

What I don't get is an argument that says "BGS didn't give me a flashy, inefficient gimmick for feature X, so it should be removed".

Also, the "balls of color" argument, is IMO, one of the worst possible arguments. It's form over function. Do people really think that it's more important to have 3 fancy animations instead of 30 different effects? BGS removed at least a dozen, probably more, unique spell effects from the game. But they did make the ones they kept prettier. I don't see that as an improvement.

With the removal of spellmaking, the magic has been removed from TES.

And that is that.

[img]http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff52/nell2thaizzay/tumblr_lisp6ohmdy1qb3l9fo1_500.jpg[/img]

Will you please stop with the over exaggeration and emotional sensationalism?

Being Spider man, I found that extremely offensive to everybody thats ever been bit by a radioactive spider.

Agreed.

That's funny, cuz last I checked, there are 6 magic skills, an entire attribute devoted to magic, an entire guild dedicated to magic, and game mechanics included specifically for the purposes of magic.

I guess the magic is still in TES.

And that is that.

Agreed.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/Xarnacwasright.png

This forum makes me sad.

I disagree, I have nothing against the spreadsheet style spell making but I think using it was similar to using a spreadsheet and/or solving math problems or whatever. I don't see why they think that's something that goes against what magic is all about though, as mages are often depicted as scholarly and experimental in the game and in TES lore. So I'd say, yeah, it's "spreadysheety" but there's no reason it shouldn't be, and a minor degree of spreadsheetiness doesn't somehow kill the magic nor is it necessarily a bad thing in an RPG game that already features some "spreadsheety" character creation and development.

I think the improved visuals and different forms of magic were also worth the loss of the previous form of spellmaking. I do think a form of spellmaking that'd be more friendly with the new system would've been nice though, and their magic system also isn't quite the overhaul they made it out to be. Dual casting was a total letdown, you can't do any actual interesting spell combinations with it, mostly just boosts a single type of spell.

No, it was nothing like that. You choose delivery, area, magnitude and duration. You put multiples of these together. Nothing 'math problem', or spreadsheety about any of that. No more than enchanting, which is never, ever mentioned in the same breath as spreadsheety.