Enchanting was/is also spreadsheety. They both have an element of dissection, study, detail, etc. to them. You're looking at a formulas in text and numbers, and adjusting those formulas to achieve a certain effect. That's at least somewhat spreadsheety even if it's not the best description/anology.

my guess is that the Idea with the new spell system was to find a way to make the magic system less "clunky" and more of a form of combat. It seems like originally (from the early PR) they planned a form of on the go spellmaking by combing two spells. but then at the end, just before release, they dismissed the whole idea. it seems like they either couldn't get it to work or didn't have time to make it work, which makes some sense considering the amount of content in the game. And while i agree that enchanting is somewhat "clunky" its not the hulk of lines spellmaking was in the last two titles.

Formula for Magicka cost:

B = http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spell_Effects / 10
M = Magnitude ^ 1.28
D = Duration
A = Area × 0.15
Total cost = B × M × D × A

1.4 - 0.012 × Skill

The Magicka cost is further multiplied by 1.5 if the spell is a targeted spell

The skill level requirement is determined from the base Magicka cost of the overall spell (summing the costs of all individual effects, and without adjusting based on your current skill level):

• Magicka < 26: no skill level requirement
  
• 26 ≤ Magicka < 63: requires skill of 25
  
• 63 ≤ Magicka < 150: requires skill of 50
  
• 150 ≤ Magicka < 400: requires skill of 75
  
• Magicka ≥ 400: requires skill of 100

A spreadsheet to calculate the cost is also available from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:Ong_elvin

They even have a link to a spreadsheet to use for Spellmaking: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/User:Ong_elvin

Source of information for all of these Spellmaking math formulas and spreadsheets: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spell_Making

So, you were saying?

They could have at least made it so different spell combinations had different effects.

Yes, but i could buy a 5% shield spell and make me own 85% shield spell, there's no need to bother buying other shield spells. Thats what i did, i got the cheapest version of each spell (which, as you may recall, were incredibly cheap, i think some were below 50 septims) and thats all. Spell merchants BOOYA

but with mages you have to buy your spells which is extremely annoying as master spells get up to 3k there's usually a number of them also they can make daedric armor and weapons by doing a few quests and mining ebony ore......

What are you talking about? Magic is a lot better in Skyim. Even the animations and look of the spells is vastly improved. I mean c'mon it's not going to be perfect give it a break.

The real question should be how spellcrafting can be implemented in the game with it's current system such as perks and such. Also spell reduction.

i think instead of spell making spell editing would be better

That you dont need any of that to make effective spells. No formulas required. If you needed all that just to make efficient spells, then you were doing it wrong. Unless your talking about the Heart Attack spell, or a variation of it. Or an aura on target, but those are advanced spell creation techniques. Just like with any complex system, you can make it complex as well, but the average created spell didnt need a spreadsheet, or formula. Just a bit of tinkering, and testing the spells. And even that isn't necessary, unless you want balance. Its not like the people parroting 'speadsheety' ever even messed with it in the first place though.

So yeah, nothing spreadsheety about it, just people that didnt understand counting.

The only thing that got better were the animations.

The magic system hasnt been this restrictive since TES:Arena......this new magic system is not a step forward, it is a great leap backwards.

That's funny cause I don't remember any of that in the spellmaking. I just remember a few sliders that you moved. Did people actually get the math that's hidden behind the system so they can complain that there's math? Ya know, I'm pretty sure there are similar equations for the damage that you deal when you swing a weapon. Is combat too spreadsheety now? Should that be eliminated next?

Also, here's a spreadsheet of the girls you can marry in Skyrim:

http://skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2418

Apparently marriage is too spreadsheety now as well.


How is it better exactly? Cause the only reason I've ever seen people give for why it's better is that it looks prettier. Exactly like you just did.

No, I will not.
The removal of the flagship feature that was spellmaking, the very thing that launched the TES franchise in the first place, the removal of the plethora of options, customisations, effects and fun I just cannot describe in any other way.

The magic has been removed from TES.

I agree, i stop playing mage in oblivion cause the spells graphics were boring, i like the skyrim spells, very impressive effects. If they need to give up on spellmaking to maintain these effects and perk-dual casting system, i'm ok with it.

^ The sort of players Skyrim caters to.

I'd rather have the ability to customize my spells rather than pretty graphics. I don't think anyone would have minded if Beth made spellmaking for each school available only at Master rank.

Occam's Razor, anyone?

Make everything as simple as it needs to be, but no simpler.

Dont get me wrong, I love having choices, customizing, roleplaying, all this, but I dont fell like a mage without some fireworks *_*. I like spellcrafting, if it could be done with pretty graphics, it would be perfect. But, as Todd Howard said, it seems that spellcrafting have a lot o problems to match with spell casting mechanics physics as well. I dont know anything of game design, maybe its another reason to give up spellcrafting.

What exactly got worse, besides the fact that you don't have multiple of the same spells over again?

We have way less spell effects, that's worse.

'

That is true. very true. Still magic is better then it has been in the other games

Umm, no, not in a game that offers choice. TES games, and Beth games in general, have always been about the player making the choice, not the developer. Beth's games have always allowed players to exploit things. "Standard" manner for you is not standard manner for me, or others, so allowing choice is the only option. Each player has to make the choice because there is no way developers can do so for every player's style of play and preference. Of course, other developers force the choice they make and that's why they get so many complaints or their games do not have long life spans.

As far as spells that are offered for sale, those are not all of the spells known to various mages, they are only what is commonly sold. Big difference.

Everything SC offered obviously, and all of the removed effects.

Yes but once again it's a bit extreme that brought you to the conclusion of magic in skyrim being the worst. (Besides they're weren't that many effects from spells in oblivion to make Skyrim's seem foreign.)

Every ES had SC. Out of all of the games, magic in Skyrim is the worst. Its the most visually appealing, but I couldn't care less about graphics.

Spellmaking only offered you what could already be done in the game already, so Spellmaking didn't really offer much significantly above the default spell effects anyways.

No. As has been said ad nauseum.