They aren't Volkihar vampires! Thread 2

Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:54 am

I'm not defending Bethesda, I'm just against the aggression towards them.

They made a mistake with the vampires in Skyrim, I'm not denying that. Clearly things could have been done better.

But, these are hard working people than made a decent game. I'm not happy with the attacks on them, more so calling them lazy, or as some think they did this on purpose.

Stop coming on these forums and playing their games if they are such a bad company.

Vampires could have been better, they made a mistake. But it was not laziness, these games go through a lot of hands and choices are made that some designers aren't happy with. All this debate is based off a book.

But, I'm not trying to pick a fight lol, I just have a view that people disagree with in this thread.
To some degree you have to agree it is laziness considering they just used the same mechanics as they did in Oblivion.
I would not call them lazy but personally I think what happend was doing the phase through ice thing would be very hard to do and knowing skyrim trying to do it would most likely glitch out your character or break your game knowing how bethesda handles features like this. Plus removing stage 4 attacks this I disagree with but I think the reason why they did it is because many people would not be a vampire if stage 4 attacks were still in(if there is a mod I will personally add it back in).

I know many people who did not become vampires or cured it because of stage 4 attacks personally I hope there will be a mod that will add this back in what I think is happening is bethesda is having problem balancing the gameplay with the lore since if they made vampires or werewolves exact to lore it would lead to many frustrations to players. This is why I approve of the how can we improve vampires and werewolves topic.

The vampires in skyrim are not exactly copy pasted the immortal blood never described the stages of the volk vampires plus volk vampires have different innate bonuses to oblivion vampires instead of having reign of terror we have vampire servant instead of weapon resistance we have frost resistance.

Instead of shouting at bethesda calling them lazy and all the other stuff lets say how they can improve them which is a lot more constructive than getting angry we need to find a balance where the people who like lore and those would have easier gameplay experience.
As I said they used the same mechanics as they did in Oblivion, so to me that shows a little bit of laziness. And I think if they had made it so that the Volkihar feed to stay stronger, and do not have the same abilities as the Cyrodiilic vampires I wouldn't mind it that much. I also think they should have had it to where they at least have underground places where the Volkihar would hang out, kind of like in the book. And as I also I think they should have implemented some kind of thing where if you wear a hood or helmet no one knows you are vampire, but if you aren't then people attack you.
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FITTAS
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:28 am

Can you prove the contrary or can you only speculate on the subject...oh wait


Uhh.... what? Please tell me you're using self-satire here.
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:09 am

There's a book about how your worst enemy is actually your best friend.

If you screw up in life, what do your friends do? They tell you "there there, it's ok, it's not that bad and you didn't screw up!" They treat you to dinner to make you feel better, and soon you're laughing the mistake off, not giving a care in the world, having a good time with your friends.
Your mortal enemy? If you screw up, here's there. He's there to tell you how pathetic you are, how much you screwed up, and haunt you about every little thing you did wrong. He tortures you with it, challenging you, annoying you and taunting you. He makes you work how to improve, to become better so you can prove him wrong. He makes you watch your step and be careful so that you never screw up again, so that he'll never get a chance to beat you while you're down.

What do your friends do? They treat you to what's nice, they lie to you and give you room to be weak.
Your enemies? They mock you and challenge you, forcing you to improve.


If I have to be Bethesda's "enemy" to make sure TES 6 and FO4 are better about things like this, then so be it. I don't want to have to see another case of "Werebears? Where?"

There is still a difference from giving criticism and out right attacking.
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Clea Jamerson
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:30 am

Minus the removal of stage 4 attacks I think dawnguard went in the right step with vampires cause before vampires was a simple side thing its just "there" if you know what I mean now bethesda is actually looking at vampires and werewolves hopefully we can get more improvements in the future now that bethesda might be open to ideas about how to improve the vampire and werewolf experience when it comes to drawbacks and perks.

edit:dmel volk vampires don't have the same bonuses as the oblivion vampires yes they have the same feeding system but they have different innate bonuses. I agree that they should get stronger as they feed instead of weaker but as I said before bethesda needs to find the balance between the gameplay and lore hence why I said I approve of the how to improve werewolves and vampire topic.
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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:58 am

There is still a difference from giving criticism and out right attacking.

Actually, this thread is full of criticism and feedback.
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Sarah MacLeod
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:52 am

To some degree you have to agree it is laziness considering they just used the same mechanics as they did in Oblivion.

I don't agree it's laziness. That's my point of view.

But, just cause I disagree doesn't make me a mindless 'I love Bethesda' fan who think they can do no wrong.

They did do wrong, I agree. The vampires were done wrong, they need to not continue this in the future.
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Andrew Lang
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:31 am

Actually, this thread is full of criticism and feedback.

This thread as a whole, yes. =) I like most the criticism and feekback being given and hope they listen.
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Alycia Leann grace
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:56 am

Actually, this thread is full of criticism and feedback.
Not really all I see is arguments about whether bethesda is lazy or not the how to improve werewolves and vampire topic is criticism and feedback.
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I love YOu
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:30 am

Actually, this thread is full of criticism and feedback.
There really isnt any feedback on calling dev's lazy and butcher's, instead of doing this why dont you guy's give them ideas on how they could have made the vampire different instead of fighting over the vampirism strains
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:10 am

Time to put a lock in it.
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Lauren Dale
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:51 am

I don't agree it's laziness. That's my point of view.

But, just cause I disagree doesn't make me a mindless 'I love Bethesda' fan who think they can do no wrong.

They did do wrong, I agree. The vampires were done wrong, they need to not continue this in the future.
:facepalm: You confuse me. How do you not see it as laziness? They could have fixed the vampire feeding mechanics and everything, but they didn't they essentially just removed 4th stage attacks, stupid choose, and gave them a new transformation. They should have either left the vampires as they were and made them the Cyrodiilic vampires, or make them more like how other vampires are where they feed to get stronger.
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Adriana Lenzo
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:31 am

There is still a difference from giving criticism and out right attacking.

How am I attacking? Am I bold with my argument? Yes admittedly I am, but no I'm not angry nor do I mean to attack.
This thread started with criticism; hell, this thread is criticism. Everyone knows that's not the Volkihar. The argument started when people attempted to defend Bethesda and say they intended this or the like. This, I disagree with and I provide an argument as to why, then the answer is "I'm through talking to you."
I keep pushing my argument, yes, because I want to hear a good answer, not "I'm gonna talk to someone who listens to my theory now."
I studied law, and one thing I learned is that when you have a good point, don't drop it: push it. Your opponent in the debate would LOVE if that point were dropped and we moved on to the next point where they have a better case.

I don't like this attitude of "I'm going to lie to myself and Bethesda and pretend I'm ok with this mistake," so yes I keep pushing the point. If you TRULY don't want to talk about it? That's fine, just don't answer me; it's your choice, in the end, and I'm not gonna haunt you with posts harassing you for an answer if you begin conversing with others instead. But if you're responding to me saying "let's drop it ok," I WILL keep responding and asking for an answer, because I'd love to hear one.

Fair enough?
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sophie
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:13 am

Not really all I see is arguments about whether bethesda is lazy or not the how to improve werewolves and vampire topic is criticism and feedback.


We've stated that we think Bethesda was lazy in their implementation of vampirism, we've said why, and we've offered ways to improve and fix things. This feedback can be used to either improve this game for us, or to better the implementation of vampirism in the next Elder Scrolls game, if Bethesda is inclined to listen. Never did I simply call Bethesda names or insult them simply for the sake of doing so.
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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:00 am

Time to put a lock in it.
They only come if you say their name 3 times
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Alexandra Louise Taylor
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:56 pm

:facepalm: You confuse me. How do you not see it as laziness? They could have fixed the vampire feeding mechanics and everything, but they didn't they essentially just removed 4th stage attacks, stupid choose, and gave them a new transformation. They should have either left the vampires as they were and made them the Cyrodiilic vampires, or make them more like how other vampires are where they feed to get stronger.

I'm sorry I confuse you.

I'm really not trying to pick fights here, even if it looks that way.

There were meetings and choices that made these changes, and work done to make these changes. The choices were bad ones, but the work was there.
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neil slattery
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:55 pm

We've stated that we think Bethesda was lazy in their implementation of vampirism, we've said why, and we've offered ways to improve and fix things. This feedback can be used to either improve this game for us, or to better the implementation of vampirism in the next Elder Scrolls game, if Bethesda is inclined to listen. Never did I simply call Bethesda names or insult them simply for the sake of doing so.

I think his point is that pages ago, a couple of us were talking about, for example, how a mod to make REAL Volkihar could easily be made.
Since then though, it's turned into a debate of whether Bethesda deserves criticism or not, not so much a discussion about what we would've wanted or how they can fix it now.

They only come if you say their name 3 times

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Mandi Norton
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:43 am

Skyrim's vampires are almost exactly the same as Oblivion's. That's the proof. The differences are miniscule.

This is becuz all vampires have the same basic abilities...Each one is only slightly different... Always been like that in all TES games where you become a vampire in.
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Nice one
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:41 pm

I'm sorry I confuse you.

I'm really not trying to pick fights here, even if it looks that way.

There were meetings and choices that made these changes, and work done to make these changes. The choices were bad ones, but the work was there.
I am not trying to pick a fight either, but I think people saying that Bethesda didn't mess up the vampires is a ridiculous accusation. They messed up big time, and they knew they were doing it which is just wrong.
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Rachael
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:10 am

This is becuz all vampires have the same basic abilities...Each one is only slightly different... Always been like that in all TES games where you become a vampire in.
Only Oblivion's vampires have the reverse feeding to look human.
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gemma king
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:49 pm

I think his point is that pages ago, a couple of us were talking about, for example, how a mod to make REAL Volkihar could easily be made.
Since then though, it's turned into a debate of whether Bethesda deserves criticism or not, not so much a discussion about what we would've wanted or how they can fix it now.


Most unfortunate, then. I find often that in long threads people don't want to go back and read the entire arguments of those who have been posting in it.

While I cannot force people to go back and read our arguments, I will stress that it is helpful to the discussion as a whole. I will not press the issue, however.
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Mr.Broom30
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:42 am

This is becuz all vampires have the same basic abilities...Each one is only slightly different... Always been like that in all TES games where you become a vampire in.

But that's not true between:

-Daggerfall and Morrowind
-Morrowind and Oblivion

EDIT: Assuming we're talking about the "reverse feeding" mechanic and blending in with mortals.
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LADONA
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:03 pm

But that's not true between:

-Daggerfall and Morrowind
-Morrowind and Oblivion

EDIT: Assuming we're talking about the "reverse feeding" mechanic and blending in with mortals.

Morrowind also had three clans with distinct tactics, cultures and features.
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Ricky Rayner
 
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Post » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:37 pm

Bethesda deserves criticism. I never said they didn't.

e
I am not trying to pick a fight either, but I think people saying that Bethesda didn't mess up the vampires is a ridiculous accusation. They messed up big time, and they knew they were doing it which is just wrong.

I never said they didn't mess up.

They messed up big time.

Clearly people are misunderstanding my point.
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:31 am

But that's not true between:

-Daggerfall and Morrowind
-Morrowind and Oblivion

EDIT: Assuming we're talking about the "reverse feeding" mechanic and blending in with mortals.

The blending in ability is the only difference between the 'new' and the 'old' TES games.. Other than that, it was all basicly the same set up in all of them except each clan had an extra.. Actually, I think the blending in ability came from Vile sometime between Oblivion and Morrowind, like the book said.. Except, most likely to all vampires and not just one kind... Which the book prolly lied about.
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Bones47
 
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Post » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:03 pm

Bethesda deserves criticism. I never said they didn't.

e

I never said they didn't mess up.

They messed up big time.

Clearly people are misunderstanding my point.
I am not talking about you really because I know you understand that they messed up, but some people do not, and that is beyond me.
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Jessica Phoenix
 
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