She didn't ask me either.

One thing I don't get about Nocturnal's whole Trinity thing is why they would do Crescent, Half, and Full Moons. Why not a New Moon?

Also, for RP purposes, I rationalized that Mercer is protected against people who aren't Nightingales now that he has the Skeleton Key, hence the need to go through with the ritual.

I don't really mind Nocturnal though. Skyrim's my first Elder Scrolls game, so I don't know what's she's been like in the past, but I do like her, Azura, Hircine, and Meridia (though both she and Nocturnal are both rather rude).

EDIT: Forgot a clause

that could explain why it is needed to go through the trials. I just dont like Nocturnal. Dont know why, i cant explain it. Sometimes, you cant find a reason for disliking somebody. Maybe nocturnal is rude to me?

Btw, who voiced Karliah? In the game, i think Karliah's voice is the best. I cant find any other npc that talks like her.

Moira Quirk.

I forgot to mention that Mercer's only protected because he's in possession of the Skeleton Key. Even though that thought is kinda flimsy because he can clearly use it against Nightingales.

Main quest: Hey, I didn't want to enroll into the college, I'm just here to speak with someone knowledgeable in lore!

Companion quest: Hey, why I should turn into a furry, smelly beast!?! I don't want to!

...and so on...

the lack of choices in several storylines is for me one of the only real downsides of skyrim
and it isn't only thievesguild , same goes for
the companions ( i m a good guy not a darn werewolf)
dark brotherhood , why do i need to go and kill all those innocent people i only want to assasinate the emperor and why do i need to assasinate a woman on her wedding someone who even helped me once)
the paarthuunax blade dillema we all know so well
some of the daedric prices quests
and some others i forgot

nah like i said probably only downside in this whole game , lack of more choices

I don't have a problem with them not letting you join the Circle without becoming a werewolf. That had become a bit of a tradition for the Companions, so it makes sense. However, I think that it would have been better if you could continue to get non-Radiant missions in the Companions even if you do decide not to become Moonborn. Just have Kodlak give you more work or something like that.

You don't actually have to join the College for the main quest though, and I'm not even talking about meta gaming.

You don't have to be Nocturnal's plaything, just sign up and be a Nightingale and forget about it.

Why is everyone complaining about becoming a Nightingale, Besides Noctournal is the Daedra of luck *hint hint*

I agree, it's total and utter garbage. Fragging morons made everything to do with the TG.

I did the hideous Tg quest for the trophies. The worst trophies and quests I ever did.
I had a new appreciation for the hideous and stupid Caesers Legion in Fallout New Vegas after that.
I realised they're better written, their actions, if nothing else, is logical when you do the quests.

They don't even give you a choice or chance to object or insult them, or kill them.

Every other daedra, it's optional. Don't want to deal with them, don't deal with them.
Don't want to stay a werewolf, cure yourself.

Mercer Frey is absolutely pathetic. He has a dwemer sword, for crying out loud, it's hardly armed to the gills with deadric!
You need no help whatsoever to deal with him.

Nocturnal does'nt even do anything to help you kill him.

She's obnoxious and fails to understand what every other deadra does, give something, get something.
She offers nothing, for far too much.
She offers literally nothing. Does'nt even show gratitude.
There is nothing that would make anyone worship her, ever.

If you wanted luck, you could worship Stendarr.

Even Malog Bal says When your enemies are broken and bloody on the floor, I will be watching. Cool. Theres going to be a lot of broken and bloody corpses about.

I refused to have anything to do with Karliah and Norturnal. I got it over with, took off the foul nightingale armour at the first chance I got, and completely turned my back on Noctural and the cretins and skipped thier dialogue.
I refused to do any of that roles garbage.
I left as fast I could, then threw the nightingale armour garbage away, in the wilderness were no one could find it.

If you're going to serve someone as part of your job, you may as well serve Sithis, the god of death.
Or Hircine, who deals with you fairly, even when you defy him. Spending time in the hunting grounds does'nt sound bad, at all.

You should be able to side with Mercer, he's the most logical of the morons in the TG, greed is his motivation, why not be greedy together and destroy the Nocturnal cult and influence.

Another thing that was freaking cretinous while dragging my poor kad'jitt through those horrible trophies, was when you go through the very unfairly locked off dwemer ruin, the 2 precious, clever, clever thieves walk into every trap in the entire place.
While talking pretentiously like they're experts about it. Mercer Freys as bad earlier. It's like, yeah, because I, the Dovahkin, explorer, Companion, can't see the wacking great trap, that could'nt be any bigger or more obvious if it tried. Oh look, you walked straight into it.

The quests are telling a story, and if you are unwilling to follow the story, then you need not continue. You always have the choice to stop doing the quest if you don't like where it is going. Complaining about a couple NPCs standing around who are otherwise not useful in normal game play is a silly thing to fuss over.

Not sure why you quoted me. I don't mind becoming a Nightingale. My problem is that it's done in a very rushed and vague manner. I think less people would be bothered if the writers took their time to explain things a bit more.


Could you please name another guild you have the option to object, insult, or kill after you join? Sure you can destroy the Dark Brotherhood, but not after you join it.

No other Daedra is part of a questline though (except Hircine indirectly as you mentioned). And the "Don't want to deal with them, don't deal with them," mentality extends to every single quest in the game, not just the Daedric ones. This includes the Thieves' Guild.

This is Story and Gameplay Segregation. You don't really need help to defeat Alduin either, but they force those three people from before to come fight with you. I'd have loved both of them to be harder, but for the sake of the those who aren't doing exploits or training to level 81, the developers make it so you can defeat them at pretty much any level. They also don't want to give you Daedric level weapons really easily, so they give him lower tiered stuff.



I don't know about that. Did Mercer ever miss you when your health was low? Did you ever get a key hit on Mercer that made him start running away from you? Did his blood remain visible after he disappeared so you could keep seeing where he was? Did you get to kill him just before he used one of his Ultimate Healing potions? That sounds like Lady Luck's on your side during the fight.

And don't forget that she saves your life after you defeat Mercer. The room's flooding with water remember? But then out of nowhere some rocks just fall down and open a path to your salvation? Sounds pretty lucky to me.


Please tell me how this would work. Really think about it and explain it to me. Why would Mercer decide to include you in his whole plan of ripping off the Thieves' Guild? What would he possibly gain from it? Why would he think he needs you when he has the Skeleton Key?

Furthermore, why would you have any reason to want to sign on with him after he's tried to murder you? Killing him and running off with the Skeleton Key is one thing that makes sense, but throwing your lot in with the guy who tried to do you in is a very stupid idea, which means you'd have to do it before he betrays you in Snow Veil Sanctum, which still leaves the questions I left above unanswered.


It makes total sense that the area with the statue is locked off. If you listen to all the dialogue, Brynjolf explains that they tried finding the Eyes before and couldn't find a way to the chamber room they were in. I've never actually gone there before it's open so explain to me this? Is the entire area "You can't go in here" locked, or is it locked where you can go in and start exploring, but you can't progress to the end of the dungeon?

The latter makes sense, but the former doesn't, especially since bandits clearly found a way in before you. Either way you can't please everyone. If the did the latter option, people would still be upset that you couldn't access the statue room.


I agree that these followers should be immune to setting off traps. This is a frustrating oversight.

However, I would argue that them explaining traps to you is an important feature because people do quests at different times, and it's important to include some form of tutorial about how traps work. The Thieves' Guild is the best place for these tutorials, so they should be the ones explaining them to you. Even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they see them, explain them, and then activate them.

My soul is for Sithis and I so want to see a weak compare to Sithis god try to take it, Sithis > Every other being with claim on my soul.

See, this is the reason I prefer the College of Winterhold to the other 3 guilds. You don't have to consort with any gods to "gain power" advance the storyline.

Meh, I'm a child of Akatosh, Nocturnal can't touch my soul, similar to how I can't touch Alduin's soul.

One of my characters left Karliah and Bryn "standing at the altar" because she hates all Daedra. I don't care that they will stand there forever. That character will never go back and see. As far as she is concerned, if Nocturnal is so weak she can't get her own key back that is on Nocturnal. Another character joined the Nightingale club. Didn't matter to that one. All that matters is money and revenge. Unlike many people I don't care that you have to become a Nightingale to finish the TG questline. I also don't care that you have to join certain things/groups in order to go into certain dungeons/places. It makes sense to me. Some things are owned by certain "clubs" and you can't get in if you aren't part of that group. "But it makes no sense that I can't get into those places!" Sure it does, it's called magic.

General problem with the game a distinct lack of choice. Sorry werewolves are for killing - I want to be thief not a daedra's play thing. Would've been nice if they had given alternate routes through the questlines.

You know agreements can always be broken. Why do you think lawyers are filthy rich these days? Why do you think many players such as myself refuse to return the skeleton key? Because were not loyal to the daedric [censored].


Karliah is a joke that failed nocturnal. The dragonborn doesn't need nocturnal to kill mercer Fray... the little piss ant... any besides I'd wish we were given an option to side with Mercer anyways. Everybody got all piss off because he robbed the guild... It's all Karma biting them in the ass. I'd love to hang out with Mercer and watch Karliah and Brynjolf fight to the death while under Mercer's fury spell

Bull. The fight with Mercer is no diferent to any other fight.

And Nocturnal does'nt save your life. She does absolutely nothing. The Skeleton Key finds the door. She has nothing to do with it.
Meridia, she helps you, in her quest. Mephaela praises your dedication to leveling up the Ebony Blade.
Every other daedra has more effect on your life and actions than Noctural does.

Mercer clearly offers you the chance to join him when he is damaging the Falmer Statue. That implies that you could at some point.
I would have in a instant.

Karliah says during the initiation quest that Nocturnal helps them with good luck, barely noticable things. Maybe you just didn't notice

And i would bet that the armor and weapons have some daedric magic in them too.

I'm gonna need Bethesda to learn/remember how to make choices available in a game before they begin making Fallout 4.

kk

I think you're all forgetting where Nocturnal came into play. You would have died without her. Don't know what I'm talking about? Remember after you killed Mercer, the building flooded and you weren't able to get out? Nocturnal, patron of the luck of thieves, made that door appear. Now obviously, Mercer would have died regardless, but had you not pledged your allegiance to the Lady of Night, you would have drowned.

The way the guilds are written it makes sense that things go the way they do. My only complaint is that Bethesda didn't take into consideration the number of players who are not motivated by the goals of the few joinable factions that are available. Not taking part in anything is always an option, but then it kind of defeats the purpose. Skyrim's quest lines are very linear, they are all optional, but if you opt to participate at all there is virtually no variability in outcomes.

Things I've become with my character:

Vampire
Werewolf
Harbinger of the Companions
Nightingale
Thieves Guild Master
Arch Mage
Listener of the Dark Brotherhood
Leader of the Dark Brotherhood
"Storm Blade" Officer for the Stormcloaks
Agent of Dibella
Agent of Mara
Champion of Azura
Champion of Boethiah
Champion of Hermaeus Mora
Champion of Hircine
Champion of Mehrunes Dagon
Champion of Mephala
Champion of Meridia
Champion of Molag Bol
Champion of Namira
Champion of Peryite
Slayer of Alduin

Things are going to be very confusing when my character dies.

No she does'nt. The skeleton key opens the door, nothing to do with Nocturnal.
The skeleton key opens doors you can't usually see, it's no diferent to the others it opens.