One part of skyrim which i absolutely hated is you have to become a nightingale if you want to advance the thieves guild. And they force you to be one(else karliah and brynjolf are going to stay at that standing stone for eras).

Cant there be another way to defeat Mercer? I dont want to be nocturnal's plaything after i die ;(
And nobody asked me if i want to become a nightingale. I mean, gamesas should add an option to let you choose right???? You can say 'But i am the dragonborn, screw nocturnal, my fus ro dah can handle Mercer'. This also includes the Companions, but at least you can cure your werewolf disease and not be part of Hircine's playground, but nocturnal! Once you are a nightingale, your soul belongs to her. I dont like that

Unfortunately, there's no other way to complete the Thieves Guild questline, but I feel your pain. Skyrim tends to do this a lot - it seems almost every single quest in the game has you either kill a bunch of people or sell your soul to a Daedra cult. Ultimately it leaves little room for roleplaying and player choice.

There's a remarkable lack of choice in all the questlines.

Mercer Frey is perfectly capable of killing any NPC in single combat, and more in succession, just to put things in perspective. The player has high armor rating, powerful weapons, and can guzzle potions, which often leads to complaints that Mercer is weak.*

Nocturnal lifts a portion of your pact when you return the Key; you are still required to defend the Sepulcher if it's attacked, but upon death, you go to the Evergloam, where you essentially become shadow and luck.

*It depends a good deal on his off-hand weapon; he always has an enchanted Dwarven sword, but his off-hand dagger is leveled and random. His damage increases considerably if he receives an Elven dagger versus an iron or a steel dagger.

It's like the circle in the companion. Maybe you have to worship Shor to become a High King of Skyrim, and they turn you in to a werebear. I'm strating to think High society of Nords are all daedra worshippers.

You try telling a Daedric Prince or Princess that you absolutely refuse to do their bidding and that they can't make you do their bidding and see what happens, each one probably has hordes of followers ready to kill you somewhere.

I wish they had explained it like that. That the three of the best member of the Guild (including the Guild Master) were always Nightingales before Mercer screwed things up. That way you have a sense that that's the proper order of things and part of the price you pay/your reward for being so good as a thief.

This angered me so much.

Of all the things I didn't want to do - beginning with the TG questline (though I DID do it once, just so I knew what was going on with it), the Nightingale part was really no big deal. What's the issue anyway? I don't get it.

I don't get it either. My biggest problem is how the questilne begins. Way too forward. It'd be better if it starts once you pickpocket something from Brynjolf/while he's watching you and he comes up and complements your skill and offers you a job.

That would make a very GREAT deal of sense. Because the only players who should get wabbajacked by the TG are those who WANT TO GO THERE to begin with. *sigh*

Why do you think I kept the Skeleton Key and not return it?

I have no idea, Jusey. Why?

To **** off Nocturnal. I wont be her little toy after death and do what she says.. **** that, I'm going to Hircine's Hunting Grounds.

Uh. Um. Do you think you might be getting a bit too far into the game there? Who CARES what every deity and daedra say you'll be doing when you die? Oy.

It is called roleplaying.

Besides, you already struck the agreement before you even got the Skeleton Key. I think you're already hers. You just don't get the power.

Jusey.... I roleplay almost the entire time I'm in any game, in the back of my mind. But I don't let stuff like that bother me even RP - because the whole POINT to the game is to have fun. If you are agonizing over something like that (due to RP.... or whatever....) you're not having fun, are you? Or if you are, then you're a much more masochistically involved player than I will EVER be.

But hey, if it's fun for you, that's all that counts.

Of course, you could just get Oblivion Walker. All of the daedric princes will have to fight over your soul... which winds up in Sovngarde after all.
Stay calm and blaze a trail across Skyrim!

Nah. I will never be hers. I'm a hunter, not a guardian.

Become both a nightingale and a werewolf, then Nocturnal and Hircine will have to fight eachother for your soul. Should be interesting.

dont forget boethiah, molag bal and other daedras. And maybe akatosh too.

Ever considered that just because they don't give you an "opt out" option via dialogue, walking away is EXACTLY the same thing? If you don't like the way things are headed, do the common sense thing we all do in real life and don't do it. If you are playing the game for the game, then you need to follow the way of the quest. That is how the designer planned it to flow, and you are more then welcome to stop ant any time.

What you people are complaining about is basically like following a friend into a room, only to find people are doing drugs there. They then hand you some and say you should partake. By your logic, you HAVE to do the drugs simply because there is no other option other then walking away.

The problem for me isn't so much that you have to do it to complete the quest, it's the execution of you having to do it. You can't voice any protests about it to Karliah to have her explain that you really do have to go through with this or that the Guild's always had three of its top members as Nightingales. It just seems a bit rushed and vague not out of an organic way of fleshing out the story, but just out rushing it.

Also, the problem with your argument is that if I walk in on a room with my friends doing drugs, and I don't want to join them in doing drugs, my leaving doesn't make my friends sit there forever waiting for me to show up again.

Also, i would like to add on. There should be another option besides becoming a nightingale. So you are the dragonborn, you can take down mercer. You have akatosh and (prolly other daedras) on your back.

Unless Karliah says 'You cannot kill mercer because he is invulnerable, since he is a nightingale and you are not. Only way to kill him is to become a nightingale'.

That, if she did say that, i can accept. But she didnt say it, so i m assuming that Mercer can be killed even though you aint a nightingale. Dont get me wrong, i love the armor and skills, but nocturnal is a ****