But you have to use the Skeleton Key to do that. That's why you see it activate the door in the Twilight Sepulcher. In this case you never used the Skeleton Key, meaning it's actually Nocturnal's influence.

The key operates without Nocturnal. It's power opens all locks and hidden doors. So she does'nt help you. Any more than Molag Bal helps you traps souls with the Mace Of Molag Bal. It's his mace, you're using to dominate and destroy, but he is'nt using it or helping you directly.

Mercer Frey used the key, and he's Nocturnals enemy.
The Key is a item, anyone can use it. The key works on it's own.

So she does nothing to help you, at all.

I'm not arguing that the Key can only be used by people with Nocturnal's blessing. I'm saying you don't use it when the rocks fall to save you from drowning. That's Nocturnal helping you out.

When you actually use the Key, you actually use the Key. It's an item. It has to be used to activate. You see Mercer use it several times (every time he brags about how easy it is to open doors and such), but the Key cannot operate without a user, and you don't use it when you're drowning.

You're waving it at the wall. The quest says go to this point, the door opens. It's you and the key, not Nocturnal.

You wave it at the wall in Twilight Sepulcher, not Irkngthand. I'm saying Nocturnal saves your life at Irkngthand.

I guess if you are talking about serious Rping standards I guess you're right.... Since skyrim is base on heavy religious practice. However Nocturnal did not mysteriously appear out of no where while the the room was being flooded with water. If you remember hard enough their was a lot of rumbling that was occurring at the time after you kill Mercer. I can't for one moment connect Nocturnal with the rocks on top of the building from falling . If you look closer (when you do the quest the next time) the rocks was already severely unstable, and with the rumbling going on it was going to happen no matter what. Oh and Mercer Frey was an intelligent man with good tactician under his belt. What if he was the one that made the rocks so unstable? Maybe that was his escape route had he won the fight against the dragonborn, Karliah and Brynjolf.

Again Nocturnal had no part of this whatsoever.

What are you talking about? You didn't use the Skeleton key to get out of Irkngthand, the rocks collapsed by themselves. These are things under the influence of Nocturnal. Luck. She saved your life.



I'm not saying that the rocks weren't already loose. I'm saying it was the luck of Nocturnal that made the rocks shift in that particular way and open up this entrance to a secret tunnel. I'm not arguing how exactly it happened, I'm saying that just as all seemed lost, luck got you out. Gallus says this when you meet him in the Twilight Sepulcher. That you should never doubt your skill as a thief, but Nocturnal gives you little pieces of luck.

Also, you think Mercer actually planned the rocks to fall that way? The man must be smart and he does have the Skeleton Key, but that's looking a bit into it. I think he would have found a way to get out through the doors he had blocked off that you entered through.

Again, I see no reason why you guys don't believe that Nocturnal helped you.

Gallus was the former thieves guild leader and master. He was also a Nightingale along an elite protectors of Nocturnal so whatever he says about Nocturnal is purely bias, nothing more. Even after becoming a Nightingale all I got was armor that I really didn't need, since I was and still am comfortable with my arch-mage robes. No magical powers was given to me after becoming one during the ritual process.

Actually if you stop and think about it you don't fully become an official Nightingale until after you return the key to Nocturnal at the Twilight Sepulcher. I guess it was her way to test out your loyalty to her. Not that I blame her because who honestly wants to return an unbreakable skeleton key? It's thieves wet dream to be able to fiddle around locks without breaking the lock. When you go to jail and want to escape you have the skeleton key with you since it doesn't get taken away.

Again, not saying that it was magic powers. More like the luck of Nocturnal. And that's extremely bigoted, that would invalidate a lot of plot points in the game if you could trust no servant. Galllus was a good man, and by the way, the luck of the thief was the basis of the Thieves Guild, with their bad luck. No why they had bad luck? Th Skeleton Key was stolen. This was all dialogue in the quest line. Unless you don't trust those either.

Lol true 'dat. The last Dovahkiin will be remembered in so many ways! Now I feel bad for whomever decides to scribe books on him or her...

wait wait wait .-. once your werewolf your soul belongs to Hircine ? but Nocturnal also owns your soul ? whats gonna happen to your soul ?

exactly.

haha reading these posts (and i havnt got to then end) is awesome you do realise that bethesda have kinda succeeded here even though they havnt gave you an option to join them or not is the way you guys are actually svcked into the game like its a matter of life or death as if its real and nocturnal when you die is going to rule over you i just think thats amazing.

My points however

like someone else said if you didnt want to join her press the exit dialouge button and walk away its simple another thing is that if your characters a theif then you should really have nocturnal at your side she grants luck and gives you some awesome powers which are actually useful unlike most of the things you aquire in the game. To add onto that its like a christian turning around and saying 'oh hang on i dont want to devote my life to god i want to devote it to buddah' in which they are believing in the wrong religion. my point is if you dont want to join the nocturnal dont be a theif and maybe thats where you say 'i think im going to change career'

thats where i stand anyway she gives good buffs so who cares unless you take roleplaying massively and believe your the character then it could bother you

It's a stupid plot point. I mean, supposedly, its because he is impossible to defeat otherwise....but that's pretty much bull in my opinion. I mean, he even gets free access to all three nightingale powers at once and that doesnt help him all that much. Maybe it would have made sense if he was actually a challenge to beat.

The one little thing that kinda bothered me was the Nightingale Sentiels. Why would they attack the PC if the PC is a Nightingale? And how in the world was the Skeleton Key taken by a group of bandits back when that Indoril person was still alive? (The only way to drop down into the Evergloam is by using the Key; otherwise, you'd die down there like Anders). So how in the world did those bandits get access to Key's location??? o-o

....That is an excellent question.

Meh. Nightingale Armor was my favorite armor in my first play through. That was worth it for my character.

This play thru I am not doing the TG quest line at all. If you don't like the quest line, don't play it.