Go play Morrowind. Tentacle monsters, giant thorn towers, and 20 foot tall fleas galore! Oh, and Cliff Racers.

Yes, Skyrim is pretty generic, but I try to appreciate it for what it is. Hopefully we will go to a more alien province next time.

Maybe some people want more of the same with a sequel? If you want something different from TES, play another game. That usually does the trick.

By this time 99% fantasy stuff is cliche. You've got only 7 plot lines to use in a story anyway. The Greeks used all of them. Then you have all these sub-plots going on, and have to avoid the plot holes when it comes to the solution. You can change the races involved and the settings, but you still have the same plots.

Cliche?.....More like done to death. The whole medieval, Tolkien setting has been done so much, that we have seen it all. Yes I would love to see Bethesda to step away from that with the next game. So stepping away from the norm would be a nice change of pace after Oblivion and Skyrim. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for either Blackmarsh or Elsweyr.

Yeah they should make it cyberpunk instead, because that would like, make sense.

It's funny how people complain about a high fantasy game they bought about it being too much high fantasy. It's like buying a bag of chips and complaining it's too much like chips. If you think it's too much of the same chips, stop eating it and come back for it when you feel like it again. Doesn't mean that chips should not be chips.

Dwarves don't exist anymore. That's definitley not cliche.

Yeah they call them "little people" now.

I don't think it's that cliché ! Skyrim shows a province of 'men'. Oblivion was also a story set in Cyrodiil, mainly inhabited by men. Morrowind for instance shows a province of 'mer' ... what gives a very foreign feel to the game, making it totally not cliché. I think the similarities to reality are not that problem. The space between 'men' and 'mer', like between 'reality' and 'fantasy' is fine by me. I think Bethesda will surprise us if they launch new worlds like Elsweyr or Black Marsh... or ... AKAVIRRR ... I'm excited.

One thing I find unique about the Bethesda series are the Khajits, Argonians and especially the vanished Dwemer.

This must be the only rpg which actually killed off all its dwarfs (save one I can remember) and has a very interesting story\mystery behind it.

If they set the next game in Akavir however would we still have the race options to choose from or would we get a selection of totally new races?

A cliché or cliche (pronounced UK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English, US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English) is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has been overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel. The term is frequently used in modern culture for an action or idea which is expected or predictable, based on a prior event. Typically a pejorative, "clichés" are not always false or inaccurate;^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9#cite_note-0} a cliché may or may not be true.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9#cite_note-1} Some are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype, but some are simply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truism and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9#cite_note-2} Clichés are often employed for comic effect, typically in fiction.
Most phrases now considered clichéd were originally regarded as striking, but lost their force through overuse.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9#cite_note-3} In this connection, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mason and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frederick_Nims cite a particularly harsh judgement by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Dal%C3%AD: "The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot."^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clich%C3%A9#cite_note-4}
A cliché is often a vivid depiction of an abstraction that relies upon anology or exaggeration for effect, often drawn from everyday experience. Used sparingly, they may succeed. However, cliché in writing or speech is generally considered a mark of inexperience or unoriginality.

thank talos for wiki
The lore and the parts that drawn on that i love the rest is ... you get the point.

You can make a game High or dark fantasy, and not copy all of Tolkien's work. TES has done a good job of not following his work too much. Elves aren't pretty, Orcs aren't evil, people of color actually exist, and the beast races. However, I'd like to see the next game not just focus on Man. The series has 10 races, that have very distinct and cool lore/history. So how about a game staring a race that hasn't had a chance to shine yet?

I'm glad there aren't any dwarves. I think more could be done with Khajiits and Argonians, though. Again: there's all this lore behind them, but we haven't gotten to experience it in the past couple of TES games.


That's debatable. Tolkien isn't the only cliche. Orcs are always outcasts, elves are always better than everyone else ... Maybe the lore portrays them differently or elaborates on this theme, but they conform fairly closely to expected archetypes in-game.


This would be a welcome change of pace.

I don't know about the OP, but I so rarely see a good depiction of Norse culture, that Skyrim made me get misty-eyed at times. Not same-old to me.

Also, the steampunk in the Dwemer ruins was quite a surprise.

In short, I'd suggest you go play Fallout or something if you didn't want a fantasy title.

Why are some people of the impression that fantasy necessarily = cliche? I am genuinely interested in a response.

Because if Skyrim's a cliche, then ALL fantasy is. Even Morrowind.

No, that doesn't follow at all. Dark Sun? China Mieville's world? Robin Hobb? Mervin Peake's Gormenghast? Lauren Beukes' world? Discworld? Game of Thrones? Robert Jordan?

Robert Jordan is a fantastic example. Although his building blocks are cliche, the outcome is much more than its parts, and there are enough twists in there to make reading his books a very interesting experience. Again, TES lore might be of this calibre, but what you experience of it in the game isn't, for the most part; and since TES is a gaming series, the only thing that really matters is that you get to experience the originality/creativity in-game.

I'll even throw in some gaming worlds. Quest for Glory? King's Quest? Grim Fandango? Myst/Riven? The Lost Vikings?

There are definitely some elements in Skyrim that are cliche. However, it is all put together in a unique way, with many new elements and interesting lore to back it up. Skyrim doesn't feel tired or old to me. It's a fairly fresh take on the Norse culture even though it may seem familiar at first.

I don't know. Why are people so adamant that Tolkienesque high fantasy is passe' and demand something else? There is a reason that it is so popular.

Personally I wouldn't want a whole game set in Akavir but an expansion along the lines of Shivering Isles would be awesome.

I always hear so much about how the lore is so amazing and incredible and how it really separates itself from the rest of the fantasy genre. But then I play the game and it's pretty much just the same fantasy stuff. All this insanely awesome lore I hear about is rarely ever implemented into the games at all outside of reading about some of it in in-game books. Okay, neat, now how about you let me experience that?

Look this is stupid. I played Oblivion & Morrowind. Currently playing Skyrim now. How can you say it's a cliche? If the Orcs for example looked like Argonions and vica verca people would be pissed off because of that. It wouldn't carry the logical TES storyline forward in any tangible way. IMHO TES isn't a game you can let wash over you and kill everything in sight without taking the story in. Bethesda can't please every fan of the series also, Meaning if you change the things that make TES what it is because its 'cliche' then most of this game wouldn't exist. I think the hardcoe fans should be pleased that they have kept things as they are to an extent. I think Beth's interpretation of fantasy races is actually really sweet. If anything Bethesda has improved the design of the races and i feel they are more distinguishable now than they were before. I was at a friends house recently watching him for 20 minutes on his play through of the game and he was playing pretty much as the Nord in the background of this forum which seemed cliche to me. I think if the races looked different to how they look in the game and had the same racial names that it does or vica verca the series as a whole would fall flat on its ass. If Skyrim is 'cliche' then im a svcker for em.

Sorry about my grammar.

Love Skyrim! Im a purist when it comes to fantasy though so I guess Im easy to please.

chrono trigger

I think being able to play all these races does the world more harm than any cliche's would.

If a race is playable that means they will be 'humanised' so the player can identify with the character.
Races that can't be played can be turned into something much more alien and, in my opinion, more interesting.

Look at the Qunari in Dragon Age. They're by far the most interesting race in the games. But playing as a Qunari just wouldn't make much sense. The dialogue options would be confusing to say the least.

That being said, I do like to be able to choose between all the different races, but it does make them more human than they could have been if they were NPC only.