Unofficial SteamDRM Discussion #27

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:37 am

Due to threads about Steam/DRM in Bethesda games being scattered in many game sections across the forum which makes it very difficult to moderate and the number of problems in each one, we have decided to have one thread for the discussion for everyone to discuss various forms of DRM/Steam in one place.

At the present we have no information about what DRM future games being published by Bethesda will have. There has been no formal announcement about it so this thread is merely for expressing your thoughts on various possibilities and expressing your thoughts about Steam and/or other DRM options which may be used.

The following rules will apply to this thread as well as all forum rules already in place.

1. No flaming, attacking or demeaning one another for their opinion about Steam/DRM (pro or con)
2. Any encouragement of piracy will result in a warning and temporary suspension of your account. Admission of piracy will result in a ban. This includes circumventing DRM of any kind.
3. Repeated posts by the same member to say the same thing can be considered spam and result in a warning against your account.


Rage has been confirmed to use Steamworks.
For RAGE, we’ll be using Steamworks for activation. You’ll simply need to be online once (per PC you’re using) to activate the game. Once the game is activated via Steamworks, you can take Steam into offline mode.
Skyrim has been confirmed to use Steamworks.
I can confirm that Skyrim will be using Steamworks. We'll have more details soon.

Steam installation link: http://store.steampowered.com/about/

One of the frequent complaints about Steam is that it can't be played offline. We are providing a link for instructions to do so. If it will not work for you, please contact Steam to assist with the issue.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1224956-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__18502385

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1712878

https://support.steampowered.com/register.php

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17

What is Steam and SteamWorks?
Steam is a Digital Distribution (DD) and Digital Rights Management (DRM) platform used to distribute, update and play games online. Its main purpose is to allow players to buy games online and download them directly to their PCs with the Steam client, but it's also used by games distributed on physical media, such as DVD discs. Games that use Steamworks, which includes Steam-activated physical DVD discs, are activated online using the Steam client, and can't be launched without the Steam client running alongside the game. Thus the Steam client is required for both physical DVD and digital installations; it will be installed automatically for DVD installations from the disc, and there is no difference in the resulting install whether Skyrim is purchased online through Steam or on physical DVD. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%28software%29 for more information.

Do I need Steam to run Skyrim on PC?
Yes. Skyrim is strictly tied to Steam for both physical retail DVD discs and online digital-only purchases. To play Skyrim, you launch the Steam client and then launch Skyrim from the Steam library, leaving the Steam client running in the background. Directly launching the Skyrim executable found in the Steam folder will also launch the Steam client, as Steam is hooked into the Skyrim executable.

Can I just run Skyrim without Steam running in the background?
No. The Steam client must be running to play Skyrim, and discussion on circumventing Steam by running Skyrim by any other means will not be allowed within these forums.

Do I need to be connected to the internet to activate Skyrim?
Yes. There is no such thing as offline activation.

Do I need to be connected to the internet to play Skyrim?
No. Steam is able to run in offline mode, meaning that you need to get online only once to activate Skyrim and install any required updates/patches, and don't need to be connected to the internet to play it. See https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555 for the official guide, and the last entry in this FAQ for more detailed instructions on how to set the Steam client to offline mode so that it can stay offline for a long time. The Steam client is often updated, and the offline mode is known to be still a little buggy nowadays, hence it is advisable follow the latter instructions to set the client in permanent offline mode once you have activated Skyrim if you need extended offline time, and regardless of any further Steam client updates.

I have preordered my physical DVD copy of Skyrim; how am I supposed to install it? Do I need to install the Steam client first?
No. What you're actually installing when you completely install Skyrim from the DVD is the Steam client itself (as long as you haven't installed Steam in your system yet), which will then automatically copy the required game files from the DVD to your hard drive. You'll be asked to enter your Steam account name and password to log onto Steam authentication servers, then setup will start. If you don't have a Steam account you'll be asked to register one before installing Skyrim. Note that some of the files may be pulled from the internet through the Steam client to complete the installation, rather than all being on the DVD.

I want to order the Collector's Edition of Skyrim, but I don't have an optical/DVD drive. Will I still be able to install it when it arrives?
Yes, as long as you have a broadband internet connection. You can activate the DVD key of any SteamWorks game, including Skyrim, in your Steam client and download and install it over the internet without ever needing the DVD at all.

I have purchased a copy of Skyrim through Direct2Drive, GamersGate or some other digital download portal, not a physical DVD version. Won't that be different from the Steam version? Will they be incompatible for modding?
No. There will be no difference nor incompatibility. Skyrim is exclusively on the Steam platform. These sites are selling Steam activation codes for Skyrim, similar to the SteamWorks DVD key. When you buy a code, you will activate it in your Steam client, which will then download and install Skyrim, just as if it was bought through Steam. So, there will be no difference from a version bought directly through Steam itself.

Where am I supposed to install Skyrim?
Any Steam game is always installed into the main Steam folder without prompting for install location. However, you may choose where to install the Steam client itself, which will determine the install location.

What if an update/patch comes out? May I just download the patch and install it, with the Steam client still set in offline mode?
No. There will be no manual updates or patches available for download anywhere; the only way to update Skyrim is to get online and let the Steam client download the updates for you. Then you will able to get back offline and play Skyrim as usual.

I'm on a slow/dial-up internet connection. Can I still activate Skyrim when I install from physical DVD disc? Will I be able to download required updates/patches?
Possibly. You will be able to activate Skyrim on a slow or dial-up connection. Steam activation data files are usually in the order of a few megabytes, so should only take a few minutes to download. However, at activation time it is required to install any required updates/patches.

Will I be able to play Skyrim as soon as it releases?
Yes. There will be more details on preloading Skyrim on Steam closer to release.

I have a question or concern about Steam, or DRM in general, that's not answered here.
Then you're encouraged to refer to the Unofficial Steam/DRM Discussion found in the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/forum/18-community-discussion/ forum or visit the http://store.steampowered.com/forums/.

Thanks to dAB for helping put together this FAQ

Please note the following forum rule prior to posting:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/724862-forum-rules-and-general-information/
10. P2P Content/Bittorrents/Cracks/Criminal discussion is not permitted within the forums.

Discussing or linking to P2P content within this forum is prohibited. Given the nature of these resources and their use with piracy, under no circumstances can they be linked to within our forums. Violations of these rules will result in a warning or account suspension.

Bittorrent links and discussion are prohibited within our forums, with exception to use of bittorrent links relating to modded content (from clean torrents). Violations relating to bittorrent content will result in a warning/suspension. Similarly, we do not allow discussion methods of circumventing the Steam check or of Cracks that violate the terms of a game's EULA. Open admission to pirating copyrighted materials will result in an account ban.

Discussion of emulators/ emulation is also prohibited on this forum.

Similarly, posts admitting to drug use, violence, or other illegal activities are not tolerated within the forums. This includes indicating knowledge of or being witness to unreported illegal activities. Such knowledge should be reported to the authorities not posted on a forum.
For the purpose of this forum, EULAs are legally binding. Discussion of breaking it, avoiding it or cracking the game will result in a warning or ban of your account.


http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1241932-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1242900-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1243801-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1245427-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1246658-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1248407-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1249436-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1251957-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1253988-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1258551-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1286613-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1331715-unofficial-steamdrm-discussion-26/
User avatar
abi
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:17 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:10 pm

First Post, I guess.

I agree with some of the final posts in the last thread. Steam, if used in the right way, will go against our freedoms some day.. That is the main reason why I refuse to use it.

Btw, I'm gonna sound like an idiot but, what do you mean by advocating? I'm not a Vocab-Type of guy.
User avatar
Destinyscharm
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Btw, I'm gonna sound like an idiot but, what do you mean by advocating? I'm not a Vocab-Type of guy.
"Encouraging/supporting", basically. Someone who's "advocating DRM circumvention" is generally saying "here's how you can/why you should crack the game security", which is an extremely thin line from "here's how you can/why you should pirate the game", which for obvious reasons is going to get you in trouble on a game company's forum.
User avatar
Jesus Sanchez
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:15 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 7:05 pm

Not sure if this is the right place for this but I'm trying to buy Anno 2070 as it's on offer but it's saying it can't add it to my basket? :( Anyone know why that might be?
User avatar
Eileen Müller
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:06 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:03 pm

Advocating that people circumvent DRM means that you're promoting it as a legitimate option. So stating that you have a "right" to play Skyrim without Steam would be advocating circumvention, and thus a matter that shouldn't be discussed here on the forums. Now it would be fine to say, "I don't think Steam should ever be a requirement to play a game," or "Bethesda shouldn't require that we use Steam." However the moment you suggest that people get rid of Steam to play the game you've crossed a line.

No warnings were handed out for such content in the last thread, although some posts did cross the line. Let's make sure this iteration doesn't have similar problems.
User avatar
xxLindsAffec
 
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:39 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:09 am

I may be out of line saying this but...

going "full Steam ahead" has IMHO only segregated the community into more camps. Us PC users are now needlessly split like never before (those that can use the current games & those can't whether it's because of not agreeing with Valve's way or lack a good enough connection) either way it downsizes the potential user/fanbase & that is something no company wants.

It would be really nice to be able to support Bethesda's devs again like I used to be able to.
User avatar
Annick Charron
 
Posts: 3367
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:03 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 pm

The way I see it, many gamers such as myself simply don′t buy new games only because they require an internet connection and an account somewhere, just to be able to play it. I think that should be completely optional. If I had been forced to join this forum to play Oblivion (my first ES game), then I don′t think I would have put a minute in that game either. As it was by my own free will that I joined I have no problem with it and it′s still not required to play the game. What I′m saying is I think they miss out on a lot of money because of this and imho it′s a very bad marketing strategy.

Have it optional, not mandatory. Being able to easily log on and download patches and stuff is a great idea, but not when it′s forced upon the gamer who has payed money for the game. And who says that account won′t cost money in the future? And what happens if the internet or the Steam server is down? Then I can′t play the game I payed for? :shakehead:
User avatar
~Amy~
 
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:38 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:33 pm

And what happens if the internet or the Steam server is down? Then I can′t play the game I payed for? :shakehead:
Thankfully that's not the case with Steam. The last straw with DRM for me is when they force you to be online to play, or force you to keep your saved games on their servers.
User avatar
Dylan Markese
 
Posts: 3513
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:58 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm

Thankfully that's not the case with Steam. The last straw with DRM for me is when they force you to be online to play, or force you to keep your saved games on their servers.
Worst case scenario no doubt, but I back off long before that ;)
User avatar
xxLindsAffec
 
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:39 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 5:14 pm

What I′m saying is I think they miss out on a lot of money because of this and imho it′s a very bad marketing strategy.
People seem to claim this a lot, but I doubt it's true. I don't really know Bethesda's sales history and profits and all that, but I have to assume that Bethesda does. Using Steam in the first place would have been a financial decision, and they haven't jumped ship yet, so it seems unlikely they're losing money on it. Company decisions like this are made by a few of the people with Big Desks behind closed doors, and "a lot of people are unhappy with Steam being required" isn't going to have the same impact as "a lot of shareholders are happy with the profits from requiring Steam".

Steam has ten times the number of users as copies of Oblivion were even sold, and even if a lot of those are people who registered and used it once/never it all and other "dud" accounts, there's still a heck of a lot of people they can reach who might not otherwise hear of the game. Since a Steam sale is more profitable than a retail store sale, I'm sure part of their goal is that by making it Steam exclusive, at least some of the buyers will be people who didn't use it before, and will continue to now that they already have it (subsequently buying future Bethesda games through Steam). How many that is, and how many are exposed to it and subsequently swear off it, there's no way to know. Obviously Bethesda's people didn't feel that was a significant threat, apparently.

Each marketing decision will lose some people's money, but as long as it makes back more than their share those other people can throw themselves off a bridge for all business cares. Until the next form of marketing tries to win them back without losing the ones gained before.
User avatar
Teghan Harris
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:31 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:03 pm

I understand the whole Money thing, I guess. I mean what said above makes sense. Bethesda is prolly making a lot more money in the long run but they are gaining "Noobs" and that can prolly hurt more later. What if these "Noobs" didn't like Skyrim? Good chance of that happening and if this is correct then they wont get the next ES and wouldn't bother the older ones thus the next game on Steam will gain less sales than Skyrim. Also, Bethesda has lost a good % of their "Loyal" players who played since Arena, Daggerfall, etc because these players refuse to use Steam and had a tradition of getting the Game Series on the Computer and not for Xbox/PS3. I've seen things like this quite a lot and read people's stories on the internet why they "quit on Bethesda" because of Steam.

This means, Bethesda will lose a good amount of sales for TES6 in the future that Skyrim manage to gain. They might be able to make enough for profit but they will still lose a good amount, if you ask for my opinions on that matter.

Bethesda's best choice is to make their games be able to go through Steam but not making it a requirement thus they can gain their "Loyal" players back while at the same time keeping their "Steam/Noob" players for more profit gain.

That is how I look at it when it comes to profits and all.
User avatar
CArla HOlbert
 
Posts: 3342
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:35 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:23 pm

I understand the whole Money thing, I guess. I mean what said above makes sense. Bethesda is prolly making a lot more money in the long run but they are gaining "Noobs" and that can prolly hurt more later. What if these "Noobs" didn't like Skyrim? Good chance of that happening and if this is correct then they wont get the next ES and wouldn't bother the older ones thus the next game on Steam will gain less sales than Skyrim. Also, Bethesda has lost a good % of their "Loyal" players who played since Arena, Daggerfall, etc because these players refuse to use Steam and had a tradition of getting the Game Series on the Computer and not for Xbox/PS3. I've seen things like this quite a lot and read people's stories on the internet why they "quit on Bethesda" because of Steam.

This means, Bethesda will lose a good amount of sales for TES6 in the future that Skyrim manage to gain. They might be able to make enough for profit but they will still lose a good amount, if you ask for my opinions on that matter.

Bethesda's best choice is to make their games be able to go through Steam but not making it a requirement thus they can gain their "Loyal" players back while at the same time keeping their "Steam/Noob" players for more profit gain.

That is how I look at it when it comes to profits and all.

Not necessarily agreeing with Steam/noob part but the rest pretty much reminds of a line from one of my favorite movies


It's simple: Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It's slow death.
User avatar
NO suckers In Here
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:05 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Steam is using 183,500 - 183,508 K of RAM 41 threads [I don't know much about threads, looking at the windows resource manager.] About 220,000 KB of RAM committed [Again, not sure what this is but committed doesn't sound to promising.] and a final good thing, uses on average 0.00% of my CPU.

I want most of that to go to Skyrim, even though I have 8 gig of RAM. Skyrim, just standing outside of Markarth uses 1,500,000 K of RAM, and I've seem it peak at 2,300,000 in hairy situations [I don't like to push my baby [my computer] too much yet, because I don't have an efficient cooling system[yet].].

I ask of you today, is there a way to start Skyrim without steam or with then close steam afterwords? I will not use a pirated .exe even if there are no options. [It says no talk of piracy, but I've looked around on other forums [Googled it] and that seems to be their only solution. I did see you could use a bat file but no explanation.]

PS: Steam is doing nothing. It's not even open in a window, just in a little icon in the bottom right of my screen.
PPS: I sort of feel I'm the only one so far with an issue that doesn't involve how steam and the internet is getting lame o.o.
User avatar
Ells
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:03 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:33 pm

The RAM usage won't slow your games down, nor will it make your PC run hotter.
User avatar
Laura Richards
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:42 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:56 pm

The RAM usage won't slow your games down, nor will it make your PC run hotter.

I'm trying to save the environment here. Less RAM usage=Less power usage. Just messing, It perturbs me that steam uses 150,000 K of RAM :wallbash:
User avatar
Beast Attire
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:33 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:18 am

I'm trying to save the environment here. Less RAM usage=Less power usage. Just messing, It perturbs me that steam uses 150,000 K of RAM :wallbash:
That's not how it works. Maybe you'd use less power if you had less RAM installed, but 150MB being used by a program will have virtually no effect on power or performance.
User avatar
Annick Charron
 
Posts: 3367
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:03 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Steam is using 183,500 - 183,508 K of RAM 41 threads [I don't know much about threads, looking at the windows resource manager.] About 220,000 KB of RAM committed [Again, not sure what this is but committed doesn't sound to promising.] and a final good thing, uses on average 0.00% of my CPU.

I want most of that to go to Skyrim, even though I have 8 gig of RAM. Skyrim, just standing outside of Markarth uses 1,500,000 K of RAM, and I've seem it peak at 2,300,000 in hairy situations [I don't like to push my baby [my computer] too much yet, because I don't have an efficient cooling system[yet].].

I ask of you today, is there a way to start Skyrim without steam or with then close steam afterwords? I will not use a pirated .exe even if there are no options. [It says no talk of piracy, but I've looked around on other forums [Googled it] and that seems to be their only solution. I did see you could use a bat file but no explanation.]

PS: Steam is doing nothing. It's not even open in a window, just in a little icon in the bottom right of my screen.
PPS: I sort of feel I'm the only one so far with an issue that doesn't involve how steam and the internet is getting lame o.o.

I would help you with the bat file thing cause I know how to do it but I don't wish to get into trouble. If I know for sure that saying how it works wont get me into trouble then I'll gladly do. Otherwise, you need to contact me on another site or via email for the answer. And I hope this doesn't get myself into trouble because I'm only trying to help another player.
User avatar
Darian Ennels
 
Posts: 3406
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:00 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:11 pm

I posted this in another forum earlier, but was referred here. I realize many of my questions have likely been addressed already, but I'm not going to read 5200 posts. Feel free to reply to this post or completely ignore it.

I've been gaming a long time now. I can remember playing on the Atari 2600, though I grew up on the NES. Our first computer was a Commodore 64. All that said, I'm pretty new to online gaming and the process of downloading games. However, I'm in no way new to The Elder Scrolls or these forums. Skyrim though is the first game that I've purchased that required me to install a third party software platform in order to run it. Early on I was a bit apprehensive about it, but, knowing I couldn't play the game without it, I decided it was worth it.

Now that I've got Steam installed, I can't understand what all the fuss is about. It demands very little system resources, is extrememly easy to use, allows you to play your game pretty much anywhere, guarantees you don't lose game files or have to repurchase a game because something damages said files, makes updating a snap, provides you with a large online gaming community, easily accessible in-game, and gives you access to hundreds of other games at some really incredible prices. I'm not trying to sound like a Steam-fanatic, but I don't understand why some people hate Steam so much.

On the other hand, I'm also fearful that there is some terrible feature or imminent update that is going to make me rue the day I committed to Steam. If such a thing is coming, please, let me know. For now though, it's been a wonderful experience. I can't find anything to complain about. Yesterday, I purchased Deus Ex: Human Revolution and all of its DLC for less than $14, had it downloaded and installed in under two hours. I also purchased a Steam code for Sonic Generations (though, it was through Amazon and took a lot longer to download). Thus far, Steam has really impressed me. I think it's a brilliant innovation that helps protect the game industry's IP without the use of more malicious DRM like SecuRom.

So, what's the beef? Why do some people hate Steam so much? What am I missing that is soon to make me resent Steam?
User avatar
J.P loves
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:03 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 8:34 pm

So, what's the beef? Why do some people hate Steam so much? What am I missing that is soon to make me resent Steam?
A lot of it is toward what can happen. Since your Steam games are tied to your Steam account, and Valve legally owns your Steam account, they can lock you out of your games on little more justification than "we felt like it". Obviously this doesn't happen to most people, but many still dislike putting that option into someone else's hands. They're also wary of Steam inevitably being shut down, since no company/service lasts forever, and they have no legal obligation to install a feature that will let you play your games without Steam in that event. My personal biggest gripe came with their overuse of subtlety; I got Steam when I bought Portal years ago, because I'd heard lots of great things about Portal. I was only vaguely aware of Steam as a thing that existed at the time. The word "Steam" is nowhere on the box, and when I got the message saying "oh by the way, now you have to download this extra program and make an account if you ever want to play what you already paid for", I was pissed. Plus, while not really an inherent fault in Steam itself, it's very popular and becoming implemented more and more across the board by game publishers making it mandatory for their products. People complain about something less when it's an option, than when it's "use it or never be able to play this game".

Of course, the majority of the thousands of posts in this thread have been insane conspiracy theorists and fanatic defenders shrieking nonsense at each other ad infinitum, never getting anywhere, never backing down. So, uh, there's also that.
User avatar
Soph
 
Posts: 3499
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:24 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 12:41 pm

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-23-ubisoft-wants-to-offer-pc-gamers-so-much-value-the-need-for-drm-goes-away From what I can tell, what they mean to do is emulate Valve's "games as a service" attitude. Even. Worse. Than. DRM.

Valve, you've polluted everything. I hate you.
User avatar
Cathrin Hummel
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:16 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 9:10 pm

My only problem with Steam is that it takes gd forever to dl a game. Bought Shogun 2 a few days ago, using my (ridiculously) high speed internet connection and it took eight hours to download. Eight. Hours. Meanwhile, I can go to another site and download 2gb videos inside of (usually) 5 minutes each *at the same time* as the game is taking its sweet-ass time to dl.

I don't understand.
User avatar
Brooke Turner
 
Posts: 3319
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:13 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 11:06 pm

My only problem with Steam is that it takes gd forever to dl a game. Bought Shogun 2 a few days ago, using my (ridiculously) high speed internet connection and it took eight hours to download. Eight. Hours. Meanwhile, I can go to another site and download 2gb videos inside of (usually) 5 minutes each *at the same time* as the game is taking its sweet-ass time to dl.

I don't understand.
You can modify which servers you use by changing a setting for Steam. It sometimes does help to pick a server closer to you but other factors can play into this problem such as ISP throtling, network saturation, and how busy the actual servers are. Usually I set games to download over night or while I am out of the house doing something else that way my time is not wasted downloading the games.

Another thing you can do if you constantly uninstall and reinstall a game is to use the backup and restore feature so you don't need to go out to the internet each time. You still need to download the newest game updates but that size is much smaller than the full game each time.

I for one do not mind Steam, yes there is the chance in the future if they go out of business I won't be able to play my games but by that time I may not even want to play most of them anymore. I still reply games from years ago that are not on Steam such as Age of Empires 2, or Heroes of Might and Magic 3, but if they were unavailable it would not be the end of the world for me. Same thing with games in my Steam library,most I play and then once I am done I never touch them again. I usually also take advantage of the sale since I have a very limited budget can get games interesting to me for a small fraction of the normal cost. This is not to say I don't ever pay full price for games but since my priorities have shifted when I do it is rare.

I find it annoying that I have to set Steam into offline mode before I enter an area where I have no connectivity, such as using my desktop in the living room, but I use that option so rarely it doesn't bother me. Since I have a smart phone the last time I wanted to play a Steam game I just tethered the phone to set it into offline mode or played with it connected via the tether. Areas I live in have fairly reliable connections so this has not been a deal breaker to me yet but we shall see in the future what happens.

The patching system to me is another plus. When I reinstall old games from a disc it is hard to track down game updates unless I keep the setup files for them around, but with Steam I do not need to worry about this. The resource usage on my systems is also minimal from Steam and I have it running all the time and never notice it unless it tries to download multiple large games at the same time on a limited connection which is not nessesarily an issue as downloads for certain games and just be paused manually and resumed later, and this is not so much a computer resource problem as it is a network problem.

Overall without owning Skyrim I have to say I think using Steam is fine and I am usually against DRM. I am sure if they go out of business some sort of steps will be taken to ensure games can still be accessed. If people dislike a company using Steam or dislike Steam itself my thoughts are just speak with your wallet and not purchase products from the company. I chose not to buy Skyrim for other reasons than it uses Steam and I usually do not even consider Steam as part of my decision making process, though for me if it does have a Steam version I tend to lean that way to save physical space, choosing to buy it during a Steam sale, and to make installing and running the game from multiple systems easier for me since I travel with a laptop and still access some of my games.
User avatar
Wanda Maximoff
 
Posts: 3493
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:05 am

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 am

A lot of it is toward what can happen. Since your Steam games are tied to your Steam account, and Valve legally owns your Steam account, they can lock you out of your games on little more justification than "we felt like it". Obviously this doesn't happen to most people, but many still dislike putting that option into someone else's hands.
Entirely possible, but highly unlikely. Valve makes its money by increasing its user base . The only practical reason a business modelled this way would cut someone off from their account would be if they had determined that individual was cheating them out of revenue. Steam is a service Valve offers game publishers, not users per se. Simply put, Valve attracts more publishers to use their service by growing the user base of the service. It's the same with advertisemant costs for newspapers and periodicals. The same is true for websites from Facebook to YouTube. Visibility is marketable, and companies that make money based on their visibility (such as Valve's Steam) aren't likely to intentional damage their base.

They're also wary of Steam inevitably being shut down, since no company/service lasts forever, and they have no legal obligation to install a feature that will let you play your games without Steam in that event.
This is a very real possibility, but I doubt it is very probable in the near future. You run this risk with a number of things in life, but nobody likes it, myself included.

My personal biggest gripe came with their overuse of subtlety; I got Steam when I bought Portal years ago, because I'd heard lots of great things about Portal. I was only vaguely aware of Steam as a thing that existed at the time. The word "Steam" is nowhere on the box, and when I got the message saying "oh by the way, now you have to download this extra program and make an account if you ever want to play what you already paid for", I was pissed. Plus, while not really an inherent fault in Steam itself, it's very popular and becoming implemented more and more across the board by game publishers making it mandatory for their products. People complain about something less when it's an option, than when it's "use it or never be able to play this game".
Yes, this is underhanded and should definitely be discouraged from happening. However, there are generally two causes of this. The first is that the companies fear you will shun their product if you are aware of it, while the second is simply the ignorant assumption that customers won't mind. Both are wrong but seem to be getting more attention of late.

Of course, the majority of the thousands of posts in this thread have been insane conspiracy theorists and fanatic defenders shrieking nonsense at each other ad infinitum, never getting anywhere, never backing down. So, uh, there's also that.
Yes, that's what I've seen from skimming through the previous threads. I've little respect or patience for conspiracy theorists of any kind, but people who seriously advocate that a game company is attempting to infringe upon their freedom of information or expression is ludicrous. On a realist side, I always consider what these entities would gain from such imperialist practices. From an economic standpoint, there is no benefit. So, unless they're planning on embarking on a moral crusade, I'll save my hysteria for pandemics.

My only problem with Steam is that it takes gd forever to dl a game. Bought Shogun 2 a few days ago, using my (ridiculously) high speed internet connection and it took eight hours to download. Eight. Hours. Meanwhile, I can go to another site and download 2gb videos inside of (usually) 5 minutes each *at the same time* as the game is taking its sweet-ass time to dl.

I don't understand.
Yes, it takes a bit longer for me to download a game than I would expect as well. Still, eight hours beats standard shipping of 3-8 days.
User avatar
Pat RiMsey
 
Posts: 3306
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:22 am

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 1:07 pm

and gives you access to hundreds of other games at some really incredible prices

Maybe in the US. I have bought Morrowind retail disc 5 years ago for 4x times cheaper than it is now on Steam.
User avatar
Jessica Lloyd
 
Posts: 3481
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:11 pm

Post » Thu May 03, 2012 10:53 am

Maybe in the US. I have bought Morrowind retail disc 5 years ago for 4x times cheaper than it is now on Steam.
The incredible prices are usually reserved for the sales. I don't even buy Steam games unless they're on sale, but you can bet that Morrowind is 50-75% it's current price during a sale.
User avatar
Lori Joe
 
Posts: 3539
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:10 am

Next

Return to Othor Games