I think it's kinda funny that this hurts console users more than PC users, given the long history of the case being opposite in matters of DRM. RAGE PC is already using Steamworks, no second-hand market is possible save for selling steam accounts on Ebay.

Another reason to love my PC

I think this is a great idea, people who buy it new should get a little something extra. The used game market is a waste anyway. A real fan of the game isn't gonna wait for a used copy. If someone waits for a used copy they probaby don't care about the few % of the game they are missing, in fact they probably won't even know what they are missing anything.

Still not usre what version I will buy, xbox or PC, maybe both.

i can't believe it! i was super-excited about this game but bethesda& id have found a way to completely RUIN this game for the single-player community. there is a significant amount of players who choose not to participate in multiplayer features that games offer. so i understand roping off multiplayer content on used game sales. i don't like it but i understand it. but roping off SINGLE-PLAYER content is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. if we, as gamers allow this to happen, what's next? what else will game developers take away from us? send bethesda & id a message. DO NOT buy this game. it's horrible to pass up the opportunity to play what is undoubtedly going to be a great game, but the gaming community has to take a stand. always-online DRM & roped-off single player content is NOT the answer to used game sales. developers CANNOT get away with that.

in an age of dwindling resources & rising transportation costs, the video game industry has shown itself to be a leader in reducing, reusing & recycling by championing used video game sales. we can teach other industries that reusing a product & recycling it through a community is a viable alternative. we should all be proud of this accomplishment. i understand that game developers need to find some way to monetize used game sales. but this is NOT the solution. the solution is still out there game developers. you're smart people. find it...

you need to calm down and get a grip..i love how some of you really want to over dramatize this..its hilarious really..

i also love how some of you claim to be such huge gamers but the second someone in the industry does something like this to try to protect themselves from huge losses you go into defense mode. all of a sudden its not about them losing millions of dollars its about you losing your "rights". what you dont seem to understand is they have rights too and if they want to add this or online passes to their games thats what they will do. if they think it will curtail used sale and keep them from raising prices for those who pay full price then i say more power to them. to me if you buy a used game you dont deserve the full game that i paid full price for..

This^

If you sell your copy of game onto someone the only person profiting is you. The people who made the game get nothing more from this sale. Basically all this means now is your copy is worth less to sell, as you've already taken the "plastic ring and the little joke out of the cracker". So people buying second hand will need to be sold the game for less.

The cracker jack anology was perfect.

I always wondered how this thing works, as I've never bought a game with such a thing yet.

So I buy the game and there's a coupon inside with a code written on it. When I play the game and find the locked content, I enter the code and the game downloads the extra stuff. I understand it to this point, but:

1) how does this prevent selling used games if I sell my copy with the code? It can't be reused? So if I change my hardware, move to another location, I won't be able to reuse it myself too? Is my game locked to some online service, like Xbox Live or PSN on consoles?
2) why would this need to be included in the PC version anyway? It uses Steam, so it's locked to my account forever and I cannot sell the game or my account.

When you put the disc in your console it will ask for the cd key. When you input the cd key it will be tied to your account and will unlock the remaining content. The PC version won't have any of this because of Steam.

Side Note: If anyone sells their copy of RAGE they are crazy

I understand that the locked content may be limited to a few fringe elements of gameplay, but this along with talk from id supporting always online DRM like Ubisoft worries me. I fear id's thinking will infect Bethesda and turn it into another Ubisoft or Blizzard. I haven't bought a Ubisoft game since they implemented their online DRM. I will not buy Diablo III. I have been buying used console versions in protest, but I'm slowly starting to question why I care about the legalities of the matter in instances where I was making damn sure the publisher wasn't seeing a cent from me in any case.

Thankfully, Bethesda [and Zenimax] have been one of my most respected shining lights in balancing DRM issues and I hope their sensibilities spread to those at id.

Sounds like you guys don't understand how the game developers make their sales, and how used games hurt game companies. This is re-post from another debate I was having over this, but it breaks it down pretty simple:

Let's say you run a factory. The product you make is something you've spent years building, fine-tuning, and spending a great sum of money on man-power and hours perfecting. So your product is finished, and you sell as much as you can to retailers to stock your product. Like any other commodity, the process is supposed to be a simple: I sell this to the store. I make money. The store sells my product, so they make money. When they're out of my product, they ask me to sell them more. The process continues, and we both make a lot of money while people enjoy my product. Everyone wins.

Now imagine the retailers just stop ordering from you. You stop making money. They stop ordering from you because they've started buying back your product from consumers at chump-change rates and in most cases cheaper than what you could afford to sell it for. Then they sell your product from their store again, this time profiting off of your company's hard work, only you're not seeing a cent. And there's nothing you can legally do about it.

So you decide: "Wait, I know, I'll make a new product! People will buy this one, and I can make money again!"... only because of the retailers "recycling" your product and reselling it to the next consumer has cut into your sales revenue. Now you can't afford to keep making products. So you either rush a product out that isn't as good as it should be in some hope of milking the last bit of hype from your previous work, or you can't find the funds to continue making your product and your company goes belly-up.

Now imagine you've been watching that process happening to all of your other peers and competitors. You're gonna think to yourself: "Man, that svckS. How do I AVOID that happening to MY COMPANY...? WAIT! I have an idea!" and thus, the process of screwing those who screw you begins. You start taking preventive measures to dissuade people from buying used copies.

i think most us of that dont see this as a problem are expecting too much from those that are complaining..the fact is they dont care..they dont care about the industry..they dont care that used game sales/rentals are hurting the developers and publishers..they are just like the ppl that pirate games they dont care that it hurts the industry and eventually its going to put a hurt on us consumers that try to do the right thing and actually pay for the content we enjoy..i mean i really dont know what the whiners expected to happen..eventually someone some where is going to have to pay the piper and id rather it be them than me..all they care about is getting something for as little as possible..im not saying i dont look for the best deal and im not saying ive never bought a used game..but i also know which side my breads buttered on..

my thing is this and its simple..who would i rather get the money for the games i buy? the ppl that are going to turn around and put at least a part of that money back into the industry..who would i rather not get my money? parasites like gamestop/gamefly who are only hurting the industry..whos profits go into someone elses bank account..simple..

The definitely makes this game a no-go for me. I normally buy new games because I understand developers work hard on them, but this is like buying a used car and having the air conditioning disabled. What, you want the convenience of A/C? Go pay the car manufacturer a thousand bucks, since they aren't getting anything from the sale of the used car. For these types of games, as well as anything being released by Ubisoft since their always-on DRM issues, I make a point to buy games from these developers used if I buy them at all. Sorry, but I don't think it's cool for developers to treat thrifty or economically disadvantanged people like they don't deserve the full game (Bethesda/id) or to treat everyone like potential pirates (Ubisoft) instead of consumers.

Used cars didn't destroy the new car market; used books didn't destroy the new book market; used furniture didn't destroy the new furniture market; used houses didn't destroy the new housing market, et cetera ad nauseum.

Each one of those things you mentioned has a much lower turnover period than a game does for an easily bored person.

A game can change hands once every couple weeks - used cars/houses/furniture tends to stay in the hands of one person for years at a time. This really does not compare.

Used Game Market
Wow, I see a lot saying that this is fine since the game company does not get a series of profits from a single unit that is resold multiple times. By the legal rights of comparison (in most courts), if a well established proportion of similar goods does not enjoy this kind of right then this would not be applicable in this case. Cars, houses, clothes, consoles, and 99% of all software (I cannot say 100% as the field is too large) does not have this right. You purchase the item, with full rights to use it for any personal means that you deem fit. If you choose to resell it, then the profits are yours. Imagine the Art market if the original owners (or descendants) got a cheque every time a piece sold. It would decimate the market in all of two seconds. Now with software the resale price is usually substantially lower than the original price, and that by getting any portion of the re-sale value will bind them legally into at least a limited warranty to support their product (which most companies do not want to do).

Just to be clear, Bethesda/ZeniMax is not accepting money, they are just refusing to unlock content. That does not bind them to anything except to the backlash expressed in this and many other forums/threads.

So, this is not a tenable solution. Having a good re-purchase program would be one way of controlling this, offering credits towards new titles. Since that is not what they are doing it is a point of contention. Since id has claimed that the locked-out material is secondary to the main storyline, and is brief in scope, it does not sound like reason enough to actually worry about this. If that statement turns out to be false, then there could be some problems (such as false advertisemant).

Rental Copies
This is another matter altogether. There will likely be a class-action suit for companies using illegal business practices that opens all the SP content (eventually). The MP content blocking is also illegal, but would be a bit harder (but not much) to argue. If the game publishers wanted to legitimize rentals then they would offer special copies to the rental companies/stores with a special encoded series of serials that were disposable (one use on a particular machine-ID until the game was returned, and then it would deactivated permanently when the store downloaded the next serial from the distributor). The special copy would cost more, but would also have benefits (free disc replacement) and priority tech support. They could also limit the number of serials, so that the profits from one unit sold to the rental was limited. They could also free copies of their games, and take a share of profits, but that would be more complex a solution.

Indiscriminate Fire
Since the Used Games are being treated like Rental Copies, there is going to be a backlash. Whomever is behind this will probably back off their stated policy eventually, but will hold the line unless the first month sales are abysmal. The problem outlined by others is that this opens the moral door to piracy a crack, and that is always a terrible business choice. Many only need the hint of an excuse, and that will cost much more than what Bethesda/ZeniMax is hoping to gain. Of course, they are probably just testing the waters for Skyrim to see how much they can push the envelope (since it will not have MP to limit, but lots of SP content to lock). I just wish they had a small game (aka one I am not interested in) to throw in front of this truck...

Now, with all that out of the way, idTech5 looks amazing. We usually hear of games that Look Amazing only to find that it is just five overlapping blur shaders, and some DOF shaders that do not quite work (even Witcher 2). This looks nice and sharp, with good DOF and more appropriate shaders. Now the only issue is the fact that id is now owned by ZeniMax (owners of Bethesda too). I see this locked SP as a ZM move not Beth, but it is hard to tell. We have seen Bioware degrade under the yoke of EA, and while that could happen to id, I seriously doubt that it could happen this fast. Rage was well into development when ZM bought id, so I feel comfortable counting this as close to an automatic buy as I get to (burned too many times to ever pre-order again). Not to mention that ZM does not make games, so Beth does not own id, where EA does own Bioware. So if the locked content is as meaningless as Tim Willits said it was, then this is not much of an issue. Probably just a few Easter Eggs that would be cool to see and a few small maps, but that is about it. With full modding support, you will probably see other ways of getting to the same area in no time at all. Well, for the PC users anyway...

If you are really ticked about this issue then wait until the reports come in about the locked content before you decide to skip what promises to be a great game (unique textures!).

ahh this was done with mass effect and the first dragon age
i really do not see what the complaint is
so if you buy it used you do not get to go into the sewers? so what
and for that some will not buy this game????
i have this game pre paid for. i started paying off my games at the start of this year so i could afford them
now i am working on 2012
so i am glad i get a bonus for buying it new
in mass effect 2 i got the creburus network free. which some one who bought the game used had to pay for
i payed full price. those who buy it used do not pay full price, so why should'nt i get a bonus for that?
and as for rage it is for all new games and is not a pre order bonus.

thanks for that post, answered most of my questions

They should have just done it as BF3 did with their karkand pack. Saying it was an instant expansion pack rather than that they were holding something back. It's the same thing just worded diferently.
Next time the company will just call them expansion packs or expansion code if this truly becomes a problem. Many companies do this they just word it better.

I can't believe people care so much about some future poor purchaser missing out on a tiny unimportant bit of the game. I'm gonna buy whatever I think is fun. I'll be having fun while these few boycotters are making their point to themselves.

....ID needs to remove this

here is one reason
lets say in 5 years i want to replay this
but i have lost my Xboxlive File or dont have it on the new Xbox(if it lets me play the old 360 games,,,just let say)

i wont ever be able to play the Full SP ever Again even tho i bought it New...
so there is only one thing to do
if you on PC Hack/Download files
on xbox you must be able to Hack your xbox if you ever want to replay Rage and have lost you Xbox live...

Actually it was stated earlier that the content is tied to your account, so even if you upgrade or get rid of the files you'll still be able to activate later because it's tied to your account. The only time it would change is if you got a completely new Xbox Live ID, in which case I have a feeling you're going to want to replace a lot of other things before you go for the RAGE content.

sorry when i said file i meant Account

i have Friends who lost their password when their xbox broke or got the new one

so what now?
locking MP is one thing (because in the future the Sever maybe shut down) but SP is another deal

also what if MS shut down the old Live and Start a new for the next 360 because 360 does not work with the 720?

you just lost everything..

Yeah, but it's the same with DLC. If you lose your password you're going to lose all of your DLC. Those codes are only active for one account.

There is no difference between this and DLC in any capacity. It's just like when I bought Alan Wake, if any of the above happened I'd lose the additional content that came with my Collectors Edition.

DLC is something the is downloaded

ID is locking things that are IN the game

also what happen in the future where New Rage are not made any more "Cry"
....
......................
side note now if I'm thinking about it MS cant shut down Live
because people will loss all the DLC/Arcade/Xbox one/Games Demand
which will Firer Up everyone and alot of Sue will begin....

because they would just have stole from everyone lol

its not that hard to get your password...sounds like someone didnt put much effort into it..

This is how I look at used game sales.

When a game is released the developer watches the sales numbers and if they are good enough they make a sequel. Every used copy that is sold is one less for those numbers. We will never know what games might have had awesome sequels had people bought new copies instead of used ones.