Vampire lords and their position in lore

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:08 am

Well, I am almost certain they are not mentioned anywhere in the known lore, but IIRC there is one book that says it is more than a 100 strains of vampires in Tamriel. As I see it thst opens for the possibility of having the winged, monsterous vampires.

Vampires aren't exactly known for socialising much either, with the exception of the Cyrodiilic strain, so that they could have avoided humans, elves and beast folks is not impossible either. Immortal Blood heavily implies that even the known vampire clans' abilities are largely unknown.
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!beef
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:38 pm

While it is true that things that appear in lore did not make it into Skyrim, I see this as restrictions inherent in the medium of games rather than mutilating lore.
Sure, I would have loved to have seen Volikhar vampires reaching through ice and more types of werecreatures, but their absence from the game does not mean that lore-wise Skyrim does not have them.
As I recall, vampires (like horses) were originally not in the game at all, but were added later due to massive fan demand.
It seems logical that due to time constraints they went with what they knew would work.

Im also not one of those people that invents lore explanations to explain these things, as I think that would be silly.
The game is not the world.

Yes, Nord hating magic makes no sense.
Dwemer were not short. I havent seen anything in Skyrim to suggest they were.

Im quite sure twilight has nothing to do with it.
Winged vampires go as far back as Bram Stoker, its part of the vampire trope.

While I agree Skyrim lore is rather abyssmal, (Hardly anything new, motivations for Alduin absent, zero mention of past events, atrocious dialogue.) I just dont think that the addition of a winged vampire is something to despair about.

I would agree, except Spriggans emerge from trees. Several dungeons look clean, but the moment you approach a tree, a Spriggan comes straight out of it. There's no reason why the Volikhar can't emerge from beneath ice or from the tundra ice in the north.

And again, I'm not saying I'm freaking over just this incident. Winged vampires? Objectively, I couldn't give a damn about them. What concerns me is the pattern of "user-friendly" changes and the message it sends. When TES starts just ripping ideas out of other forms of media (like barbarians hating magic or these vampires) while neglecting it's own lore, then yeah, what does that tell you? To me that says they're basically selling out their unique lore for more comfortable clichés in order to bring people in, or it's an obvious reminder that the original writers and creators of the TES series are basically all gone now and the new ones don't know how to do jack except rip off existing ideas. Either way svcks.
And that to me, is alarming. To me that's the series dying, at least story and lore wise. Morrowind had a brilliant main quest and lore that people still won't shutup about. Oblivion didn't receive nearly as much praise, but I would hope we can all agree that it's Thieves' Guild and the Shivering Isles were exceptionally well done. Skyrim....the Skyrim Thieves guild makes no damned sense, big parts of Skyrim's supposed lore are completely missing, and now we're getting new lore that seems ripped directly from other forms of media... :confused:
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Grace Francis
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:05 am

(text)

To that, Im not buying the next TES RPG.
Not unless it has spellmaking. And attributes. And is an actual RPG instead of an exploration simulator.
For me, Im mostly dissapointed in game mechanics of Skyrim.

I have sort of retreated into the lore, there is a lot of great stuff there.
When it comes to new things, I prefer trying to find ways of fitting them into existing lore rather than give up on it.

I like your idea of Volikhar appearing similar to Spriggans.
Maybe some clever modder can figure out how to make that happen.
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Shannon Lockwood
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:19 pm

Did I miss something? When was it confirmed that Vampire Lords will be in the DLC?
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Lynne Hinton
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:36 am

Only Cyrodiilic vamps are supposed to be subtle. Remember that.

"and, though i use the word loosely" i did not mean that all vampires hide in the public eye, i mean that no vampire goes flying around screaming "i iz evuls!! lololololol" which, as i said, are the only reason these vampire lords would be added to anything at all. this is just my opinion, but, everyone hates vampires that do that kind of stuff (even the sparkly fake vampires are better)
Hm, A mutated strain of Vampirisim. Or it could be after a vampire has lived a certain amount of time. They could spin it off new or old, and do a good job of it, if they were careful.

This is the first I've heard of actual vampire lords though? Is this going to be in the new DLC?

ancient vampires ecome ancient vampires, not winged abominations that would be so brutaly obvious that every vampire hunter in the world would be able to find it in less than a few minutes of being in the same area (which would also make a mutation out, natural selection would weed the disease out rather quickly). i highly doubt there is any way to make these things not svck. also, i also want to know if we have it for fact that these creatures are actually being included as we are thinking.
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Matt Bigelow
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:24 pm

But it still seems cheesy and it's the way they're adding it.

As it's been said, where the HELL are the Volikhar? We had a description for them and the "Volikhar" we've gotten are nothing like them. Hell, they're almost exactly the same as Cyrodiil's. You can sit and say "well obviously the Cyrodiilic race of vampires had some influence over Skyrim in the past 200 years," but no, the reality is the devs were just lazy or didn't give a [censored]. Skyrim is also supposed to be known for werebears, but there are none. Again we can say "oh there wuz a Nordic version of St. Jiub that drove them out so ya they're gone now" but no, again the truth is it's just laziness.
Meanwhile, we supposedly have an entirely new breed of vampire introduced that looks like it was ripped straight out of popular movies just to appease people OR they will be the Volikhar and we're supposed to believe no one mentioned they had wings for millenia.

The point is it's sad that their own original ideas they once had simply aren't being developed despite them being capable of developing them, whereas cliché forms of lore are getting plenty of attention and addition, such as Nords hating magic (barbarians hate magic, it's the RPG rule!), dwemer must be short cause they're dwarves (pretty sad a dev missed this...) and vampires must look like that movie that was released a couple years ago.
The writers should be laying the foundation, the developers bringing their ideas to life. Instead it's working the other way around: the devs are doing whatever the hell they want or whatever's easiest and the writers are in charge of coming up with excuses for their existence. This is clear as day.

I like how you are calling Bethesda lazy. Actually I don't it kinda pisses me off. If Bethesda added everything they wanted to the game wouldnt even be in the beta stage yet.

And we don't know what Vampire Lords will look like yet. Who said they have wings? Did Todd Howard descend from the heavens and personally tell you they are going to use the gamejam vampire lords?

The Dwemer weren't short. They were elves not dwarves.

Dude, pretty much every single statement that spews forth from you is false. It's pathetic.
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Rob Davidson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:34 pm

"and, though i use the word loosely" i did not mean that all vampires hide in the public eye, i mean that no vampire goes flying around screaming "i iz evuls!! lololololol" which, as i said, are the only reason these vampire lords would be added to anything at all. this is just my opinion, but, everyone hates vampires that do that kind of stuff (even the sparkly fake vampires are better)


ancient vampires ecome ancient vampires, not winged abominations that would be so brutaly obvious that every vampire hunter in the world would be able to find it in less than a few minutes of being in the same area (which would also make a mutation out, natural selection would weed the disease out rather quickly). i highly doubt there is any way to make these things not svck. also, i also want to know if we have it for fact that these creatures are actually being included as we are thinking.

Maybe it's not obvious. Maybe we haven't heard about abominable vamps yet because when people see them, they aren't associated with vampires but instead with some other monster. There are a lot of monsters in TES.
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:50 am

i dont see the problem. unless they force the vampirism on me i dont care.
its not lore breaking to me because most vampires in the lore were real monsters, the cyrodilics were the ones who could blend with society, which leads me to believe that the ones in skyrim are an offshoot of that clan.
vampires in popular media were always REAL MONSTERS just about until the ann rice novels got popular. i believe there were a few of dracula looking mostly human, but he was still a very revered creature.
vampires in elder-scrolls come in all shapes. so i dont care if they make one has some really monstrous state.

oh and whoever said that some adventurer would have found the vampire lord i ask you this question. who could find something that does not wish to be seen, has been hidden for centuries for a reason? oh yeah, a dragon-born or other great hero like in previous games.
only a sith deals in absolutes :P
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Sylvia Luciani
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:30 pm

Maybe it's not obvious. Maybe we haven't heard about abominable vamps yet because when people see them, they aren't associated with vampires but instead with some other monster. There are a lot of monsters in TES.

quick question, do we know if it really is the flying abomination of all that is unholy in TES that we (or i, at least) think it is? could it be some high powered ancient vampire that looks like a remotely decent vampire or does it look like that...thing they made in about a week?
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Benjamin Holz
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:09 am

We don't know yet. There are files that have to do with "Vampire Lord Transformation" but that doesn't mean it looks like the thing from Gamejam.

If they did decide to use the model from Gamjam, you can sure as hell bet that it will be tweaked and worked on. We also don't know if the wings will be included, but probably not.
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Tiffany Castillo
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:21 am

I like how you are calling Bethesda lazy. Actually I don't it kinda pisses me off. If Bethesda added everything they wanted to the game wouldnt even be in the beta stage yet.

And we don't know what Vampire Lords will look like yet. Who said they have wings? Did Todd Howard descend from the heavens and personally tell you they are going to use the gamejam vampire lords?

The Dwemer weren't short. They were elves not dwarves.

Dude, pretty much every single statement that spews forth from you is false. It's pathetic.

What did I say that's false?
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:33 pm

We also don't know if the wings will be included, but probably not.

I don't think so either. In the game jam video it says 'become a vampire lord' and everytime I try to imagine my vampire lord floating about in a dungeon or cave, I get that image of her hitting her head on the low ceilings so frequently that she ends up knocking herself unconscious. It was probably just an early design that they toyed around with for a bit, or at least I hope it was.
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Marie
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:54 pm

The wings also looked extremely unconvincing.
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Neil
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:43 pm

The wings also looked extremely unconvincing.

Right. People need to understand that just cause it was in the video, doesn't mean they will implement it. It was just a week for them to have fun with the game...
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Elena Alina
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:20 pm

i dont see the problem. unless they force the vampirism on me i dont care.
its not lore breaking to me because most vampires in the lore were real monsters, the cyrodilics were the ones who could blend with society, which leads me to believe that the ones in skyrim are an offshoot of that clan.
vampires in popular media were always REAL MONSTERS just about until the ann rice novels got popular. i believe there were a few of dracula looking mostly human, but he was still a very revered creature.
vampires in elder-scrolls come in all shapes. so i dont care if they make one has some really monstrous state.

oh and whoever said that some adventurer would have found the vampire lord i ask you this question. who could find something that does not wish to be seen, has been hidden for centuries for a reason? oh yeah, a dragon-born or other great hero like in previous games.
only a sith deals in absolutes :tongue:
Actually Vampires come from a wide range of sources most of which were very humanesk and not very monstrous. Just an FYI.

Also I agree these types of Vampires could easily have hidden and here is why. The game world is 50 kilometers in size. The actual size of Skyrim is about the size of Washington state an over 2000 times difference in size meaning there are hundreds of farms, towns, and ruins that we don't know about or have seen and I can imagine the rest of the Continent follows similar suit size wise so there are plenty of ruins, forests, jungles, abandoned (insert whatever) for Lords to hide in while having regular Vampires take care of the.

My original point was that there was room in the Lore something the responder completely freaking MISSED! Though I still think winged monsters is a tad bit stupid I would like to point out there is thousands of years of history for Tamriel let alone the many other continents and realms in the universe that we don't know about so adding to the Lore if done in a reasonable and not completely [censored] manner is completely fine but I would think it would be cool for them to come from the North as a taste of the monsters up there.
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:33 pm

an obvious reminder that the original writers and creators of the TES series are basically all gone now and the new ones don't know how to do jack except rip off existing ideas.

Sadly enough, yep. Even for all the praise the in-game books get, most of the more substantial ones were written back in the days of Daggerfall and Morrowind. The new additions are frankly unimpressive in comparison.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:33 pm

It's not that I dislike Vampire lords or vampires or that I don't want them getting more content. It's that I don't really want the first expansion to be about them. I was hoping for another travel into Oblivion, or to Atmora, or something more interesting... But I'm sure when it comes out I'm going to like it.
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MatthewJontully
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:04 pm

"They will be difficult to surprise," Movarth frowned. "But I will seek one out, and tell you what I learn. And then you will tell me of the vampires of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Rock, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hammerfell, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elsweyr, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Black_Marsh, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morrowind, and the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Summerset_Isles, yes?" From Immortal Blood We know almost nothing of the vampires in the surrounding provinces of Skyrim. We could be going to High Rock for this DLC.
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Janette Segura
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:13 am

It's not that I dislike Vampire lords or vampires or that I don't want them getting more content. It's that I don't really want the first expansion to be about them. I was hoping for another travel into Oblivion, or to Atmora, or something more interesting... But I'm sure when it comes out I'm going to like it.
Yes! An Oblivion Realm would be a welcome addition. If Bethesda had to walk away from vampires, Coldharbour or the Hunting Grounds would be the ideal realm to visit!
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biiibi
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:26 am

"They will be difficult to surprise," Movarth frowned. "But I will seek one out, and tell you what I learn. And then you will tell me of the vampires of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:High_Rock, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hammerfell, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elsweyr, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Black_Marsh, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morrowind, and the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Summerset_Isles, yes?" From Immortal Blood We know almost nothing of the vampires in the surrounding provinces of Skyrim. We could be going to High Rock for this DLC.
That would be cool.
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Valerie Marie
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:35 am

Ever since I played Hircine's quest in Skyrim I've wanted to go to the Hunting Grounds. It seems fitting for Skyrim's Nordic theme.
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Helen Quill
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:58 am

I wouldn't mind going back to Oblivion. Just as long as its not Hircine's realm. I don't know I just never really like hircine.
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:17 pm

Any other realm would be...boring.
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He got the
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:07 pm

You just said you wanted to go to Coldharbour.
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Sasha Brown
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:35 pm

I should of been more specific. Any realm other than Hircine's or Colharbour.
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jason worrell
 
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