Absolutely; it's called "breaking the fourth wall" and it's a valid technique. It's not the right technique for all games, you certainly wouldn't do it in Tomb Raider or an RPG, but for something like Doom it's one appropriate way of doing things.

Dig, ROTT returns:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CGLiWf2NM0

Quail id.

I'm 66 years old. I done growed up and now I try to change things I don't like. Making a modern game with keys is pretty old school but the days we needed a keycard for gameplay are really long gone. If you want to make Doom 4 that uses such outdated methods feel free but if I'm right, it won't sell well.

It must be a huge dilemma for id right now. I know you have decided on a path but what to do? Make a retro Doom game with pretty walls and spaces focusing on combat with monsters. Make some id version of CoD with a guided path and checkpoints kinda like Rage. If you have any balls you will try to come up with some new stuff, push that stupid envelope out the door and amaze us.

I play lots of video games and I have opinions about all of em'.

So, in one sentence you present us with an example of a game that doesn't by any means push the envelope and tries new stuff and is a one big love letter to old-school shooters and in the other post you are all for pushing envelopes. Consistency, thy name is PenGun.
Furthermore, if you really are 66, have some dignity for Christ's sake. That post with ROTT (and I give you credit for almost making me hate ROTT just because you mentioned it) was so damn petty.
The thing is, people en masse DON'T WANT id to do anything new. They want the same old DOOM they had back in 1993, 1994 and 2004 - shotgunning demons and hunting for keys in hell. Not every game needs to do something new. The industry once tried to forget everything old and go with the times and what do you know? Old genres get resurrected every second, old franchises get sequels and spiritual successors, 8-bit is all the rage, Angry Video Game Nerd makes a feature film and Mark Morgan has a job again. Only by knowing, acknowledging and accepting where we came from we can progress. And as such, not everyone needs to do anything new. Especially if they are better suited for old tricks.

As for the poll, I chose killing demons with shotguns, exploration and survival. What? Health and armor are resources to be managed after all.

There's no problem with having key cards, but I don't think you guys realize the ONLY point in leves of the old Doom games was getting keys, and that's pretty stupid for a game that will have modern graphics and should feel more believable.

It was the point in D3/ROE too. Did you not notice? You are rarely doing anything else and each level ends on a switch, just like in the classics.

I guess you're right. Even Doom3 was this way...
Well I like that more "refined" way, at least in Doom3 they didn't make "in-your-face" where literally it was color coded. I don't mind finding keycards/pda's/things to access a door, but I guess I like it when they at least try to "mask" it in a different way

Yeah, I think giving the key hunt a new coat of paint worked. It took me some time to realize how oldschool DOOM 3 actually was once you scratch the surface.

ROTT the original pushed the envelope very hard. Did you ever play that little treat? An amazing game even today.

The vid is just hilarious. It sort of reminds me of Rocket Arena, a Q3 mod, but with more speed and madness. The original that kinda inspired RA was a Q3 game where you spawned with 100 rockets a rocket launcher and 200 health. A total panic, quite like the vid.

And petty, you really need an insult coach.

I picked all but the bottom two.

I did. (Completed it too)

I still have it installed ~off of the retail CD. great game; great on holidays too. Alas... the engine is slippery in that way that can make some motion sick (as it does to me).

That awful over-tiling going on with the lava

Looks awesome though, will definitely try out that multiplay
Oh and almost everything about it seems perfect, even the music they have playing.

The knife is very powerful. I use it on Controllers and in CoP, Buerers. Their physic powers make it difficult to use a gun and they cannot take your knife like they can your gun. Still a Bloodsvcker is pretty tough. We all play on master really, it's easier in some ways. Noone is a bullet sponge.

People en masse don't actually care much. The kids born when Doom came out are 20 now. It's that group, well both sides of that age, that buy the combat video games and that is the crux of your problem. They know little about Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Quake 2, perhaps a bit about Quake 3 and 4, and Doom 3 is not all that well regarded in that group.

An amazing game will be one that breaks at least some new ground. There so many competent shooters now that not doing an amazing game may finish id.

I agree entirely with this.
Making a classic Doom with new graphics isn't going to keep id from loosing money and eventually shutting down. The worst thing they can do right now is release an old fashioned game that can only stand out for its "originality" that well we've actually seen already since 1993.

Yeah, 20 years ago, so it doesn't count. For that matter, DOOM, the original, pushed the envelope even harder, in terms of technology and design.
Insult? There was no insult. If you want an insult - sorry, I don't insult old coots.
Grampa, don't tell me what 20 year olds do and don't care about now, ok? Being a 20-year-old, I know better. Besides, average gamer age is 30, as of late.
Serious Sam 3, Painkiller, Hard Reset. New ROTT.

Hallelujah!
If they really release that game, i've got a reason to buy a new pc!

They'll bury you in a lunchbox....

In the Doom 1/3 setting on Mars, this keycard scenario makes some sense since you're moving through a military installation.
In Doom II or the upcoming Doom 4 wich takes place on infested earth, it would feel odd to have the need for keycards for certain doors in every map.
It might make sense depending on the type of door, but needing a keycard to upen up a toilet would feel strange.
Which brings me to the idea that changing the keycard for a coin would feel right in this case.



Pretty much my viewpoint towards the matter although i wouldn't say Rage was close to COD. It tries to bring old and new style into one world.

For Doom 4 Id has three options:
1. Retro style (which nobody will buy except for the oldschoolers)
2. Modern style (which all fans of the Doom franchise will hate)
3. Do something groundbraking and new (which is risky but might successfully reboot the series and revolutionize gaming)

A mix of 1 and 2 doesn't seem to work either.
Rage was not as successful as expected.
Other companies with long running game brands suffer from the same problem.
Capcom with it's Resident Evil games for example.
RE 6 got criticised by pretty much everybody for either being "not Resident Evil" or being a "mediocre shooter that's not as good as COD".

Conclusion: If bringing old and new together in a game doesn't work, do something new!

It's not about making a retro game or a modern game, it's about making a Doom game. If id release a game called Doom 4 that doesn't build on the feel of previous Doom games no-one is going to be happy.

As for doing something bold I'm pretty sure that's a safe bet, it's not like id have ever played it safe.

Sadly... this isn't really true anymore. The reality is that another demographic segment will always step up and fill the ranks; someone will be happy with it, and as a result the entire franchise can morph into an unrecognizable product ~and still profit, or become even more profitable despite abandoning the original material.
The name would be the same, but the product could be entirely unfamiliar ~except to those that come to expect it by that name.

This only presents a problem if you plan to spend more in development than you can realistically re-coup. This is what stung Atari when they created the E.T. game. They could only hope to sell the game to fans of the movie that owned their console... but they made more units of that game than the number of consoles they manufactured.

Let's see Id do a Kickstarter advertizing an old-school DOOM 2.5 using a GLQuake comparable engine (made functional on WinXP/7/8, MacOS, Xbox/PS3, Android and IOS); and focusing on delivering frenetic multiplatform 16 player deathmatching/ with a complimentary Singleplayer/co-op mode.

Something new and revolutionary would be to include an IPX stack with the game that allows LAN play, and doesn't lock it to the game's use, but simply adds it [unsupported!] as an optional protocol for Win7/8 ~meaning anyone wanting 3rd party IPX at cut rate could just buy that game and have it.

They just present their case, what they can offer (in the sparse time they can allot for the project), and see if the market comes through.

*The only snag being fear of image tarnish if the project didn't get funded; but what DOOM fan wouldn't fund it? ~and DOOM was once the most installed software application in existence.

Most of those franchise reboots didn't do too well, particularly the ones that really strayed from the original gameplay, those didn't do very well at all and the majority of the sales they did get were due to peoples faith in the franchise, which has since evaporated. If Doom 4 is too far removed from the previous games it'll not just be badly received (no matter how good the game actually is), it'll kill the franchise.

If anyone is going to buy a Doom game, they'll be expecting to get a Doom game

Don't fool yourself (Like I did); this wasn't the case with FO3.

Because it's in first person? Fallout 3 wasn't that different from the previous games and was remarkably faithful to the old games

Yeah. Having played all the Fallout games in order and without a ten-year delay between the second and the third, I can say, that the F3 was, in some ways, closer to the original, than F2 was.

Right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJX-tnuZ0c

___________

What if DOOM 4 mimicked Fallout 3 in every way except shooting mechanics? A copy of FO3's gameplay, but set in the DOOM/Space setting; including various armor and outfits; hats, and foot gear. Instead of keycards, we'd get NPC's telling us they can't access the hydraulic door controls unless somebody goes down to maintenance level and brings back an access tool and a cutting torch... And once back, and past the door, the group of techs you're escorting can't decide which route is better to take, and they ask you ~and siding with one ticks off the other two... Would this make for a better DOOM game? Would this be a positive change in most player's opinion?

(Serious question, I'm curious what the answer will be.)

**What if it copied FO3 gameplay ~and it's shooting mechanics? How about then?


As to FO1:FO3... The only similarities I noticed were bottle caps and the re-use of faction names. The actual game mechanics (the only thing that matters IMO) were mostly unrelated, or misinterpreted when trying to include them.

So?