Why are Norse people (Scandinavian / Baltic) people so tall

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:14 am

Some of you do, due to this Native American woman the Vikings took back with them back to Iceland.

There is no record of them bringing anyone back with them and even if they did then there is no evidence that they had six with them. Believe it or not but female slaves were not bought to perform sixual activities, they were workers like all other slaves.

A few weeks ago I wrote a paper on slavery in Iceland for a class I'm taking, so I know what I'm talking about
User avatar
Alisha Clarke
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:53 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:36 pm

There is no record of them bringing anyone back with them and even if they did then there is no evidence that they had six with them. Believe it or not but female slaves were not bought to perform sixual activities, they were workers like all other slaves.

A few weeks ago I wrote a paper on slavery in Iceland for a class I'm taking, so I know what I'm talking about


http://historicmysteries.com/vikings-introduce-native-american-dna-to-iceland though admittedly nothing definitive has been decided yet.

And no, this isn't the only one.
User avatar
anna ley
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:04 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:36 am

I think a more interesting question is why the Scandinavians who share the same rough genetic cline as northern England, Scotland and Ireland (after conquering and colonising them in the early Middle Ages) grow to be noticeably taller. Or a better example might be the Netherlands which effectively shares the same genetic heritages as its neighbouring countries (being the melting pot in the middle) but their population averages taller than either France or Germany. Europe is such a genetic blending that the average population height variances are probably more due to national differences in health and nutrition.

For a poignant insight take a look at the Wiki page showing average heights from around the world and compare the difference between the height of Mexican men (5'4") and American Mexican men (5'7"). That's a three inch difference primarily driven by a modest increase in standard of living!


:) I don't know whether you were just joking, but actually only a very tiny part of the Scandinavian population became Vikings and raided overseas. The vast majority were (relatively) peaceful farmers.


Genetically most Brits & Gaels are different to Scandinavians & Balts.

The paternal DNA know as Y that is genes passed from a father to his son but can not pass via a woman and in turn proves male ancestry. Over years this gene has suffered small mutations which once recorded are placed into haplogroups. The hapolgroup for the majority of the British Isle is R1b. This haplogroup is also common across south and central Europe. This is the gene group of the Megalithic people of central and western Europe from whom the Celts descended.

In Scandinavia they are mostly I or R1a.
I is possibly the highest and is also the Balkans and forms the group IJ. J is the haplogroup of the Chaldeans (Iraquis, Syrians etc) Arabs & Jews) which shows they were related much further back.
R1a is the haplogroup found amongst Slavs, Persians and also NW Indians. It is high in countries such as the UKraine. R1a which was related to R1b much further back is believed to be the genes descended from the nomadic groups of the steppes of Russia such as the Scythians, Getae, Samatians, Persians, Medes etc. R is believed to be the gene passed down from the original Indo-Europeans


Interestingly although Iceland was colonised by Scandinavians it is high in R1b unlike Scandinavia & the Baltic which is relatively low in comparrson.
User avatar
Kathryn Medows
 
Posts: 3547
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:10 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:54 pm

wrong thread
User avatar
claire ley
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:48 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:42 pm

The Maasi, Oromo and the Mandinka/Mandingo are African tribes which are considered tall, and Inuit tend to be dimunitive in height, so that puts a kink in Bergman's rule.
Heredity has a lot to do with, despite claims of nutrition. Poor nutrition can stunt growth, that is true. However, if one is genetically predispositoned to short stature or has/is predispostioned to health/endocrine issues, all the food in the world will not increase their height.
User avatar
Beth Belcher
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:39 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:44 pm

Why are Norse people (Scandinavian / Baltic) people so tall in real life?

That's how they make up for being short in fake life.
User avatar
Trevor Bostwick
 
Posts: 3393
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:51 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:00 am

I'm Norwegian and pretty tall 193 cm or 6 foot 4 inches. So i'm pretty lucky in that regards. Also I'm rather stocky at 220 pounds and at 12% body fat thats pretty muscular. I'm just lucky in my genes i guess.
User avatar
Andrea Pratt
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:49 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:08 am

Well, some Asian folks were also very combative and they weren't very tall (Mongols, for example), and the same could be said about lots of other peoples. So it's more at random. That's how evolution (in the sense of random mutations, not progression to better... maybe it's a stupid aclaration, but I don't want to look nazi) works.


mongolians rode horses though. you dont want to be tall on a horse cause that raises your center of gravity and makes it harder for the horse to turn. thus mongolians became shorter. :)

im willing to bet its mostly diet. just watching that show deadliest warrior you see large differences between eastern and western warriors with the western warrior being alot bigger. probably eat more meat and obviously dairy since alot of asians have difficulty with dairy products because it wasnt part of their normal diet historically. japanese i think are the exception if i remember the map correctly.
User avatar
James Smart
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:49 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:09 am

mongolians rode horses though. you dont want to be tall on a horse cause that raises your center of gravity and makes it harder for the horse to turn. thus mongolians became shorter. :)

im willing to bet its mostly diet. just watching that show deadliest warrior you see large differences between eastern and western warriors with the western warrior being alot bigger. probably eat more meat and obviously dairy since alot of asians have difficulty with dairy products because it wasnt part of their normal diet historically. japanese i think are the exception if i remember the map correctly.


About your first paragraph, well, I don't think so. If you ask me, evolution wouldn't work like that. I mean, I don't think they were taller at the beggining and then became shorter, as I don't see how the taller people would have died and the shorter ones would survive to spread their genes. As other peoples living close to the mongolians are more or less the same size, I would say their height was like that even before they rode horses. If by luck that gave them some advantage... could be, though there were very good riders in Europe, being taller.

About your second paragraph, I agree :thumbsup:. But don't forget that even with their too-much-vegetable diet (shared by some western folks as well) there were completely badass warriors!
User avatar
Eoh
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:03 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:18 pm

deadliest warrior

Please, please, please don't cite that show for actual scientific and historic content. Please.
User avatar
JaNnatul Naimah
 
Posts: 3455
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:33 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:58 pm

I've heard the Sami are quite short in general, and the ones I've met always have been - unfortunately, I don't know enough Sami people to give an accurate guesstimate at what their average height might be. And I've never seen an actually accurate source say they're short, it's more on the basis of hearsay. I'm unable to find any reliable sources to back up their shortness, though, but http://www.cedarseed.com/fire/humantypes2.jpg pops up with a quick Google search. Anyway, the point is that if the Sami are indeed quite short and have lived in the extreme North (as they have), that makes the "taller because of colder climate"-argument less probable.

It's true that the Scandinavian countries have been "isolated" for a long time, so a narrower gene pool might be what caused it.

At 5'2'' I'm below average height by Finnish standards. :( Damn. I should move to a country with a shorter average height to make myself feel taller.

I'm part Sami and I can only say that my sami great-grandmother was short, that I tend to think of Sami as shorter than Germanic Scandinavians but that I cannot supply any official info either.

All people used to interbreed as in marry from their own type. travel of the modern world and political correctness has encouraged mixed relationships. If its a reference to marrying from first cousins then other parts of the world such as many Muslim countries are historically the worst for this as it is accepted. I'm sure Nordic countries did it no more than any other older culture. It was more common globally full stop. Laws and research has calmed it down and much research into modern science has come from northern European countries.

Peoples mixed long before such things were made up.

http://historicmysteries.com/vikings-introduce-native-american-dna-to-iceland though admittedly nothing definitive has been decided yet.

And no, this isn't the only one.

From what I've read, the Vikings didn't have that much contact with the natives in America. Not other than trading with the ones who came to the colony and fighting when misunderstandings arose. I've only heard about the vikings being near native villages from people on the internet, never read it in a book, but in turn, I've hardly read all sources on the subject.
User avatar
Lil'.KiiDD
 
Posts: 3566
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:41 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:43 pm

http://historicmysteries.com/vikings-introduce-native-american-dna-to-iceland though admittedly nothing definitive has been decided yet.

And no, this isn't the only one.

well I'll be damned...

That's pretty cool :P
User avatar
katie TWAVA
 
Posts: 3452
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:32 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:35 pm

well I'll be damned...

That's pretty cool :P

I agree. Though it's already pretty cool that you could easily converse with time-travelling Vikings.
User avatar
Sweet Blighty
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:39 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:52 pm

I agree. Though it's already pretty cool that you could easily converse with time-travelling Vikings.

Indeed, I love the fact that I can pick up ancient Icelandic / Norwegian books and stories and read them with ease. ^_^
User avatar
leni
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:58 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:52 pm

Australian's are tall and naturally strong too.


I saw this had to question what you meant. You do know that we all came from England, right? I don't see many stereotypes about English people being tall and strong. Unless you mean our indigenous population of course, but they're not really famous for being tall and strong.
User avatar
Danny Warner
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:26 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:16 pm

mongolians rode horses though. you dont want to be tall on a horse cause that raises your center of gravity and makes it harder for the horse to turn. thus mongolians became shorter. :)

im willing to bet its mostly diet. just watching that show deadliest warrior you see large differences between eastern and western warriors with the western warrior being alot bigger. probably eat more meat and obviously dairy since alot of asians have difficulty with dairy products because it wasnt part of their normal diet historically. japanese i think are the exception if i remember the map correctly.


A bit of info.

Indian people as a whole are short however people such as those of NW India such as the Punjab are known as being tall. Interestingly the Punjab is mostly populated by people such as Jatts who trace their ancestry to the Saka. Saka was the name used by the Scythians for themselves. Jatts are also fair in comparison to most other Indians and their features are often sharper or squarer.
When DNA studies were done on the people such as the Jatts their Y DNA haplogroup was R1a which is the same as that common amongst males of Eastern European countries such as Ukraine & Poland. Although they are Indian and look India we can prove via DNA testing that Jatts therefore share the same ancestry as many people living in Eastern Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a_(Y-DNA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatt
User avatar
mike
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:51 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:40 am

Half Norwegian, other half is scot/irish. Somewhere between 5'9" - 5'10"(No cm for you, too bad) so just slightly below average for a norwegian.

We're all so big because we eat the smaller ones.
User avatar
Louise Dennis
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:23 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:09 am

I saw this had to question what you meant. You do know that we all came from England, right? I don't see many stereotypes about English people being tall and strong. Unless you mean our indigenous population of course, but they're not really famous for being tall and strong.

[censored] you, no I didn't!
User avatar
Alexander Lee
 
Posts: 3481
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:30 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:17 pm

mongolians rode horses though. you dont want to be tall on a horse cause that raises your center of gravity and makes it harder for the horse to turn. thus mongolians became shorter. :)

Yes, because that's how evolution works.

Not.
User avatar
Kate Norris
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:12 pm

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:39 pm

my ancestors came from northern countrys i guess, but my dad's side of the family always was tall, my grandpa was 6 ft 3, (He was also part native american, like half or something) his dad was around the same hight (or so i've been told) I'm around 6 ft 2, i think that tallness comes from your ancestors, but maybe some families are just a lot taller than others
User avatar
Russell Davies
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:01 am

Post » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:01 pm

i think that tallness comes from your ancestors, but maybe some families are just a lot taller than others

Wha... wu... uh... huh?
User avatar
Shelby Huffman
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:06 am

Post » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:57 am

Why is there genetic variation within species at all? The answer is evolution and divergent paths.
User avatar
Bek Rideout
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Previous

Return to Othor Games