I dissagree it should be 2 armor types. Becouse a bandit is not like a Frickin heavy armored knight its just a little light armored noob...

I don't think "knights" wore their plate armor all the time. They could easily switch to a simple chainmail when they might need to move faster and more unhindered.
To scout or something like that. And I sure as hell don't think they'd be worse fighters for it!

Starting to wonder if you have any idea what you're talking about here...

I'm not a big fan of getting rid of Light/Heavy Armor or the Armor skill period because then armor would just be like Fallout 3. Not to mention that Heavy Armor and Light armor are two completely different armor groups. Being good in one doesn't mean you will be good in another.

I disagree with OP completely, and I daresay I don't believe he has ever worn a full suit of armour.

Different armour styles affect your movements heavily, and thus greatly affect the combat style of the wearer. Dodging, parrying and attacking are all very different when wearing a full suit of plates as opposed to say, leather armour. If "if you've worn one suit of armour you've worn them all" sounds true to you, then I am afraid you are sorely mistaken.

I recommend you read: Hallgerd's Tale, The Armorer's Challenge

Im trying to make it simple for you to understand. Ok... Put a assdasin in heavy armor... oh look he cant do what hes trained for because he needs flexability... Knights. They pretty much had 4 fighting styles based around the weapons they used, Sword. blunt, polearm, and axe.and they trained their entire lives it was a bad example.

Its hard to explain this you keep saying its all mental. But its not. Basicly think of the skill you gain by putting light armor on when you had heavy all this time as you getting used to that armor. You dont get used to it after a few minutes it takes a long time to get used to because you have to breake habits in your fighting style. I dont think I can get simpler than this.. You have to learn the limits of the armor you are wearing. Also kinghst have chainmail underneath the plates they trained with light and heavy they spent their lives training with their armor.

Even going from a one handed to a two handed sword is differnt its a sword its pretty much the same style you slash stab perry but your not used to using 2 hands so you can't be a expert with it instantly same with the other way around. same with armor your not used to it. its this mental getting used to somthing differnt that affects your fighting style. This mental thing is the hinderance. This skill trees between each armor type was to put a penalty for those who used no armor and made a assasin/theif build so they can't instanly pause the game put on heavy armor and become a tank in 3 seconds its a penalty for going the way you did.

I can understand having skill in heavy armour maybe being "backwards compatible" with the lighter armour types, but that's about it. Going from light to heavy armour is no small transition.

And that's where perks come in.


I completely understand that, but I personally would rather have one more interesting skill than two seperate, passive, armor skills.

That's always been my issue with any of the passive skills, and I belief Todd himself has the same problems. Armor skills are totally passive. You wear the armor and the skill raises, just like athletics or unarmored or whatever. You don't "use" the skill exactly, you just meet a requirement and it levels up as you go. In this case, you wear armor and the armor skill raises. You don't have to actively use it, just passively.

Err, no?
I clearly said each type of armor had drawbacks but just how much these inconvenience you depends on how you play. A big guy will naturally be less inconvenienced by the weight than a smaller nimble guy primarily because they rely on different styles of combat and implicitly, different attributes. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a skill that governs how well you take/dodge hits or whether or not this should be part of a general "combat" skill but I really don't think armor skills are the answer here. Besides, how long do you think it takes to get used to a lighter or heavier armor, by comparison to how long it takes to learn marksmanship or swordsmanship?

Yes, I know fully well how heavy armor restricts your movement. Which is why I think it's bloody stupid that he will be WORSE when putting on a lighter armor!
All of a sudden he is less encumbered, has less restricted movement, and can move about quicker, and he's supposed to be clueless about how to fight in it?

It works the other way around. Someone used to light armor will have trouble with heavy armor. But someone who is used to heavy, will have no problem whatsoever with lighter armor. This system is flawed, and as such, it would be better off with simply ONE armor skill, with the option to specialize for a certain style via perks.

In reality does one knight say "Oh yes my training has granted me the perk of wearing heavier armour" or "I am skilled in wearing heavy armour".

But you're missing the fact that, when a warrior used to wearing light armour fights he is constantly dodging attacks, an advantage granted to him while wearing light armour.

But a warrior used to heavy armour? He can't dodge. He relies on his armour to protect him. So when he suddenly switched to light armour his fighting style will be less adept at dodging than the nimble light armour wearer.

I agree. I think that whatever strength has turned into should control how fast you move in it, but it always has the same defense and weight. Then there can be multiple tiers and the only way to tell if the armor is light/medium/heavy is to look at the actual weight and defensive stats of the armor. IMO

It doesn't matter because this is a game. I try to keep my suggestions within the realm of possibilities for how the current system would most likely be. I understand that you might not like it that way, and I would definitely have done the system a different way if I were the lead game designer, but it will be this way, because I highly doubt they'd change it at this point. I keep my ideas in this vein of discussion for those reasons, even if I don't like the idea myself.

In reality, Knights would probably be more concerned about how good they are at killing things and how much money they have.

Right, I will make another point, since reality doesn't really apply to games.


I like to mix and match my armor in games. Especially in Morrowind and Oblivion.
In Morrowind, I would end up using Light, Medium AND Heavy armor to make up my character.
Simply because I felt like it. I like playing characters who pick up bits of armor that he likes, creating his own set.
Of course, this meant I had to raise THREE separate skills! Although it is simply pieces of armor with different weight.

That just feels silly on so many levels.

Armor is armor, no matter what weight it is! Different heavy armors weight differently and behave differently, and limit you
differently.

Someone who is used to typical european knight plate may not be comfortable at all with heavy samurai armor.

Same reason why we don't get seperate skills for broadswords and rapiers. Or swords and axes. Because they fall under
the same general category. But you can specialize with perks, and this should go for the armor skill as well.

Any one can wear heavy or light armor. But when you spend a long long time with it maybe your entire life then suddenly swaping out. Are you going to be proficient in breaking old habits you gained by wearing heavy armor or light armor. No beacue those old habits you gained training yourself to react without thinking on it etc will be imparied yes its mental and all that but thats the deciding matter. I know this is a game and all and ill point out a new problem...

So now you have 1 armor skill tree nice right. Oh look I slected the perk that take 50% damage away (light armor had this I belive) and now im wearing heavy armor haha im a uber tank... or hey look im not being punished for weaing heavy armor while sneaking up on sombody. Im running around faster in light armor than I should "its like im wearing nothing at all."


O pirate cant wear heavy and fight like he does when hes using maybe light or no armor at all. A kinght wont fight the same way as he would in heavy/light/no armor but he will still fight proficently because he spent his entire life training for all kinds of things. Now You get bob here in light armor he spends every time in combat in light armor now put him in heavy. Oh look its awchward hes tired after a short bit and hes not used to not being able to move less. Now Put Joe here in heavy armor hes pretty much going to have some of the same problems just backwards. Hes not tired he not used to the freedom of movement and what not but his mental state has changed he more wary and feel vulnerable in light armor thus thinks to much on his actions. Its mental problems and also physical. Heavy armor is more backwards compatible than light armor is. Just because you can switch from hevy to light does not mean you can do the same from light to heavy. Experts will even say "warriors have to train in heavy armor basuse it is vastly differnt"

Its training for each armor type. im talking the warrior class not soldiery class of fighting. soldery class are told to fight in what they get and what they get can change. A warrior owns his armor so he may or may not want to change because it all on himself to train with the new armor type because as even experts say they are vasty differnt. A person with heavy armor knows the weak point in his armor same with a guy using light you swap them out oh look they have to lear the weaknesses of a new type of armor etc etc.

Now in a game like state... its a kind of puinishment for deviating from a bow/arrow /stealth build to a heavy footed im going to crush your face with my boot build.

soldery class cant compare to warrior class because well he does not have the training.

I agree, a single armor skill would be useful.Skills for different types of armor seems kind of silly anyway, feats/perks would make more sense if we need to differentiate between light, medium, and heavy. It makes sense that characters who know how to use light armor will have trouble using heavy armor for the first time, but not the other way around. If you're used to wearing a quarter of your weight in metal, then wearing a fraction of that will just make you more mobile.

Ive tried to cite books as examples, people ignore reading though.

Need it read to them by Patrick Stewart...

Appears books are a thing of the past if you can't gain any skill by browsing the first 4 pages.

What's the difference?

The difference is that the former sounds utterly stupid and unrealistic, whereas the latter is perfectly reasonable and understandable.

The whole "perk" label always makes me shudder (in relation to CoD), but that's a whole other issue I guess. Why couldn't they just call them skills? So you have specific skills (ie perks) as well as an overall skill. Or even feats would be much better imo

So "I have 56 on my heavy weapon skill, so I can wear it more effectively" sound more natural to you?

Seriously why are there so many people worked up on how things are called?

Hes saying the first one was silly and sounded stupid.

The socond is stating a fact that someone would say when asked a question.