Something with a little more depth than that obviously and a little more engaging. Havelock was right, empresses are pawns and that's how they both felt like in the game. They didn't really do a whole lot with her character, but I guess that's for the best.


Oh, you joke about that but the rule34 has already started...


Depends really. It's the expectation thing all over again, for some things it turns out dull and no point in being labeled "forbidden", for others it's obvious why they are and their consistency is what keeps them exciting and interesting.

See the Witcher series...

One of Emily's audiologs, obviously a retelling of something she witnessed in the Golden Cat. One of the Pendletons nvde and negotiating a prostitution contract. Poor girl is scarred.

Opinions, we all got em. We'll agree to disagree.

Those type of porm purveyors can take a rat swarm up the [censored].

In American culture it's ok to watch people get eaten alive by rats/burnt to a crisp/any other insanely violent thing... but it's not okay to show the human body without clothes on.

Blame our insanely prude society.

I'm not turned on by pixels but I do appreciate realism in all forms. Whether it be an extremely realistic death scene or six actually happening in a brothel... (THE HORROR I loved the drunk passed out guy though, that's toally me after too many shots, sorry babe no six tonite wayyyy too drunk)

Those were facts.


Opinions, we all got em. We'll agree to disagree.


Quite true.

LOL

You're defending... Never mind.

Oh Lawd, I just pictured.... Gah. I have to go bleach my retinas.

But thanks for the tip.... I'll look for it next time.

I don't see why are people whining so much with their mature crusades. Nudity is perfectly fitting for this game, in some parts, e.g. the brothel.
Sure, it's not necessary and the game can do completely without it, but to say it would not fit at all is nonesense.


No one ever touts Witcher's 2 nudity as the main point of its mature theme, apart from people who haven't even played the game and just parrott the nudity nonesense add infinitum (e.g. most people on BSN ).
And besides, to think that six, nudity and swearing necessarily has any bearing on the complexity and maturity of a story or a theme (both positive and negative) is a false dichotomy.

I'm also extremely curious as to what you think a game should contain to be considered mature. Violence, six, drugs or language are apparently not mature themes for you (or "lame tools" as you've called them), then what are?

Moral ambiguity? Geralt is essentially a character built from that concept.

Philosophy? Something constantly touted throughout the series.

Realistic character traits? I think anyone who's played at least 1-2 hour of TW2 can testify to that.

I do have a feeling that you are one of those people who just like to be contrarian for the sake of it, seeing how many others proclaim TW to be a well-thought mature fantasy series, which in my opinion, I believe it is.
And no offense, just because nudity is one of the aspects you despise, it does not make the game "for horny teens only", which would be equivalent to me saying "NHL is a game only for dumb brutes because you can injure other players". Okay, that's a bit of a hyperbole here, but the anology is more or less same.

EDIT: Used the mature word like 6x times now.

Did you try walking in on the woman and offering to join her? What she tells you is precisely the reason why the game doesnt feature it.

No I have not.... I *did* tell Piero that I'll punch his face in if I catch him peeking again.

But I have to agree with Callista's reasoning. I wouldn't be in a mood, either

Well yeah - not saying she doesnt have a point, plus the heart, iirc, has some things to say about her having a family anyway. Besides, if you're of the opinion Corvo was in love with Empress and Emily is his kid, that kinda seems... I dunno. Maybe just me.

Not true, they do mention it as a selling point, i.e. "CDPR is not afraid of a few [censored]." The game itself was marketed on cheap titillation, e.g. the Triss Playboy shot. I love the game and the franchise, I really do, but you can't deny that this is part of what they use to try to attract a male audience.

Even though this isn't directed at me, I think you're missing that person's point which is essentially the same one I made- that the nudity in Witcher 2 adds nothing and maybe even takes away (because, as I said, I found it cheesy and lame). It's not "despising nudity." It's saying that it's a non-issue. In a highly artistic game like this, I'm sure that Arkane would present nudity tastefully if it was there, but it doesn't need to be.

I feel like we're all giving the OP too much credit for actually having a point.

... seems crass. It's not just you.

I actually never denied their marketing antics, however people make it look like the nudity is the ONLY main aspect of Witcher 2. Whatever forum, board or topic, whenever there is a TW2 thread there is always someone using the good old (and dumb) porm argument. It just gets annoying.

We have to disagree here chief. I've read the original book series the game was based on, even talked a bit with the author himself on the czech FantasyCon and I believe that nudity fits the theme of his world just fine. Not nudity as in "briasts in your face every 30 seconds! So mature, buy our game!", but nudity where it fits, in context.

Agreed. I read all the books and side stories, played the game, and yep, it fits. Would be VERY odd and even out of place in the Witcher universe if it didnt have nudity... Thats exactly the kind of world they described, exactly the kind of characters they were, exactly the sort of setting. I really, REALLY liked the second game, just wished it was alot longer. Oh well. here's hoping for Witcher 3 and playing as Ciri and Geralt in turn, would be cool. But anyway, off topic.

off Topic, but I really have to recommend The Witcher books. Engish-speaking audience has been deprived here, with only 2 books translated (and not in the right order, either.... wtf) ..
Fortunately I have them all.... not in the original language, but at least I had the opportunity to experience the entirety of them. Which were *excellent*.

Understood, but we did go on to discuss the complex political story and other themes so you're preaching to the choir. Sort of.

I stand by my opinion that there's nothing added to the game by the glimpses of Triss' [censored] (while Geralt is covered up, I might add) in the two scenes where they're shown. It's not a big deal, but it's not like it's great art. The elven bath scene would have been better without the pixel grinding, in fact. Its cleverness was in the dwarf overhearing. FWIW I've read The Last Wish.

Now back on topic, there's no scene I can think of in Dishonored where nudity would have actually added to the scene. The lack of it doesn't detract, either, unless you're out for juvenile thrills which apparently the OP is. So there's really nothing to fuss about. The art style is that of a Victorian painting, and sensuality is very present in, for instance, the Sokolov painting of Lady Boyle. Why not focus on what the game did well instead of niggling about things that don't matter?

There really isn't a scene because Dishonored lacks that depth completely so it will feel only tacked on and forced. If it tried to be more detailed then maybe then, as it stands now, definitely no.

This would seem to equate nudity, six, and sixuality with depth, and it's something with which I can't agree.

About for the Witcher 2, yes, Celan summed up my opinion. I am -not- offended by nudity, in the "prude" way or anything. I quoted Witcher 2 because it was used a marketing tool. It's extremely difficult to show how a game is featuring mature themes as in political turmoil, philosophical questions like ambiguity and what is good / what is not, psychological scars ( not in the j-rpg term of the ways where 15yo are hiding a troubled past .. Geez! Mommy and Daddy were stealing their pocket money? ), treason, love, friendship, responsabilities.
No, it's impossible to show that in a trailer. So how does one will sell his game? [censored], blood, one liners.
As I said, I put Witcher 2 on my shelves for now, but I like the depiction of the victors rauaging the city they'd just capture, I like the rendering of the King's assassination. The Scoia-tael is a nice concept, mixing racism with rebellion, while not being nice guys/heroes. The Witcher's universe is kind of a grey area. Even Geralt is no angel.
Still the only thing I, as a non-initate, know about the game, is that we got to see titiZ. What does that say? No, it doesn't say that I don't know the universe ( well it does but that's not the point ). It says that what I am shown of this universe is nudity, profanity, gore. It says what the problem is in the video game industry : they are well aware that this will appeal to the largest audience and sell the game.

Tried Heavy Rain? This is also a very mature game. Loss, fatherhood, guilt, responsabilities, and how far you are ready to go to save your child. Mixed up with a children serial killer case. Heavy Rain had great mature theme, with no need for nudity. Well, they did it anyway, two shower scenes ( one male one female ), one love scene. As a result, they felt a biiiit out of place but were true to the Hollywood inspiration. At least, it's not "Triss is completely nvde but Geralt is still wearing his pants".
The Black Company I also mentionned earlier conveys a lot of mature themes, and, just like the Witcher, it's an heroic-fantasy / medfan world. There are hardly explicit six stories - at worst the narrator fantasizes about the Lady. Same mature themes as for the Witcher ( according to you all, since I can't say for myself! ) : war, political intrigues, betrayal, who is bad/who isn't. The heroes are mercenaries, ready to take anybody's money, without giving it a second thought. [censored], stealing, killing, nothing is forbidden. it's never depicted, though, making the thing even more disturbing. To them, to the narrator, it's perfectly OK.

Bottom line : I didn't like the Witcher 1, I don't know yet about the 2. But using the lamest and cheapest "mature" themes to do the selling was bad. It just showed how nudity ( as well as violence and profanity, mind you ) is not, ironically, a mature concept for video games yet.

Bonus : when was the last time you saw a heroin or female character who was not depicted as a sixy chick rather than... Say... A normal or even badass woman? I was ready to go with Samus Aran and then remembered she is getting increasingly longer and longer screentime out of her armor, and increasingly bigger b00biZ. A few women in MGS, maybe. Heavenly Sword's Nariko? Almost, not quite. Lara Croft...? Well we all know one of her, err, biggest features. Fem Shep in Mass Effect? yeah. Oh wait, she has lace bras in the 3rd. Under the armor. Elena Fisher in the Uncharted games? Getting somewhere. Alix in Half Life 2? Yeah.

So as it stands for Dishonored, nudity wasn't needed. Actually I thought that seeing those girls in dirty rags and messed up make-up was far more telling of what they had to live each day. The most "erotic" thing we will see in the game will be those two girls dancing slowly, like they don't have the strength to take it anymore. I found those two girls heartbreaking, honestly.

Me too. I suppose on a second thought I would agree with what some have suggested, that a titillating scene would actually take away from the careful depiction of gilded oppressiveness. You can say more with a restrained hand than by splashing.

I for one am so tired of seeing fleshy bits shoved in my face in every single piece of media. Maybe it's because I'm female and the jigglies are almost entirely women's. Though like I said, if Arkane did use nudity in a scene, I am sure they would do it better than most. Likewise if they ever decided to use a female protagonist, I am sure they would do it well. Even though I love Corvo and don't have any problem playing a male protag, I would be interested to see how they would approach it.

It really doesn't and I would never equate those.

So bottom line, you didn't like their marketing antics. Fair enough, neither did I, but I am still rather baffled if that's one the reasons why you shelved the game (which I assume, cost you quite a fortune).

I really think you need to get over the whole issue of the first impression. I didn't like Dragon Age's "This is the New [censored]" trailer or some of the rather pathetic and ego-stroking romances either, but in the end I've managed to discover a great RPG.

All I can do is to recommend you to try the game at least, and muster some patience through the first hours, I am sure you might like it.

In any case, we agree to disagree and have different approaches about the themes that make the medium mature. That's all I can say right now.

BTW: I liked Heavy Rain, but that does not make TW2 appear inferior or worse, because ya know, their approach is pretty subjective. Both games were very popular in the end.
Same with your Black Company (which I happen to own, actually). You like the "no nudity or six" approach, I like both. Again, does not make either look any inferior

Never heard about Saskia the Dragonslayer? Oh right, never made it past the Prison, did you?

As for your little list, there is Jade (Beyond Good and Evil), Chell (Portal), Grace Nakimura (Gabriel Knight series), The Boss (MGS3), Jennifer Tate (Primal) and April Ryan (The Longest Journey series). Am I doing good?

Not this, please. When was the last time you saw an average dude that isn't muscled up, dudebro or a badass as a protagonist? Alan Wake is the only one I can think of off the top of my head. That's just as damaging a stereotype.

There are plenty of crones/ugly women/non-entities as secondary/background characters. When you get to protagonists, the pickings are bit more bare, but see Smert's list. Things are improving.


I assumed they were just drunk.

Actually I shelved the game for other reasons than the scenario and marketting thing
First, I wanted it to run with optimal quality. No need to remind you that the game is a performance killer ! But I knew I was about to buy a new comp'. So I told myself I'd just continue later on the new computer.
Second, well, I reaaally didn't like the gameplay, the controls, and all. It didn't help they really overlooked the tutorials...
Third, I was playing some other games, and by the time I got my new computer, I had some big bad work to do.
In short, it's that kind of game that suffered, for me, from that effect, you know, when you tell yourselves you will try again later, but then you never really feel like taking some time to reinstall it and start your playthrough. I think we all had something like that at some point in our lives, may it be about a movie, a tv show, a book, or a video game.

Rather than shelving a game that the marketing tried to sell me with what I felt were bad arguments, I just dont buy it, it's simpler ! At leat I thought - think - I can enjoy the story. Somedays... Later...

Ah, and I mentionned Heavy Rain because I think there was a more interesting emphasis on the maturity of the story, beforehand, in various trailers and ads. Black Company only because it was also a med/fan book, which didn't use explicit nudity.
But I'm being a bit unfair just to make a point - for example, I like James Bond, and he is a womanizer. Hell maybe *the* womanizer. I bet Andrzej Sapkowski wrote his character with the same traits in mind! Also Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote his Cycle of Mars including completely nvde characters, wearing no more than jewelries, and had it not as an erotic trait, but as a "natural trait", implying that Martians didn't share this kind of "offense" with Earth-people.



Oh you little rascal, you Fair enough though


Unsure about The Boss, wasn't she rendered with an open outfit, which, even if it was to show the scar, was still an open outfit? They seem to like this kind of open-chest outfits. Naomi in the 4th game?...
Faith from Mirror's Edge! Maybe Lucy from Assassin's Creed but she is not the main protagonist.


Agreed. Absolutely agreed.
James Sunderland in Silent Hill 2 too! The male protagonists of Heavy Rain ! Gordon Freeman !