No. Ghosts are superstition, there's never any credible proof that a ghost exists, after all this time that the concept of ghosts have been around the best proof is some fuzzy or easily doctored disreputable image/video. At worst, it's just people collaborating experiences (the worst type of evidence) and presuming this to be the explanation (eerily similar to people who claim to have spotted aliens), sometimes using these experiences as a major source of how they view the entire universe. For fun, superstition like this is cool and entertaining, but for seriously shaping one's view of life, the universe, etc., it's, to me, utterly ridiculous and foolish.

While I sometimes take issue with people turning science into religion, I'm wondering why you seem to take such an extreme all-or-nothing position on it.

OT: I do think ghosts exist, as influences on individuals or a national zeitgeist. Kim Jong-il is a perfect example of such. A personal example would be if someone who was close to you died, but continued to be present in your mind, and affecting your behaviour for better or worse. Those types of ghost I believe exist.

The ghosts commonly referred to as such whose defining characteristics are visibility (and thus physicality, matter needs to be present to defer, reflect or absorb light) are absolute rubbish.

A few years ago I had a dream about a friend. The next day I get a call informing me that he had perished. But that was probably a coincidence. But that falls into ESP.

It didn't sound like an all-or-nothing stance to me. They merely stated, perhaps a tad bit condescendingly, that they're not okay with the idea that science, to some people, is the only way to explain things. This implies that they still garner some respect for science, but their problem lies with the science extremists, of which there appears to be some contempt present for.

Edit: Perhaps "extremists" was a bit too harsh of a term. Let's just say...the "scientifically inclined".

What is a "science extremist"?

I was trying to find an appropriate term for someone who believes in science and only science, and if such a term exists, then I failed quite horribly at remembering it. I was originally going to say "Atheists", but questioned whether the term was forum appropriate and would just steer this more into the direction of a religious debate. But hell, this discussion is against the rules too, so why am I trying to beat around bushes?

Once the paranormal, if there is such a thing, is uncovered, it becomes the normal.

As for ghosts and that stuff. Not really. There are more suitable and more grounded-in-reality fares to chase after.

I had dreams about my father right before he died. That was probably my dreams predicating his death, even though he randomly decided that day to take his life, and even though the odds of dreaming about a person (especially one you've seen or heard, never mind a friend or family member) before they die are pretty high.

They might be thinking along the lines of someone with an absolute view of science (more in a religious sense) as far as presuming the truth of all or just about all things told to them are scientific and true, as the possibility of testing things for one's self or reasonably concluding something based on sound logic isn't possible in even remotely every circumstance. There's one issue I have in mind but alas it's discussion on the forums are no longer allowed.

True science is not drawing conclusions about the unknown and investigating it. Until I see a shred of evidence that shows the earth is 6000 years old, or that ghosts are real, I will default to the position that they are probably false.

If that means some people blow me off, that's most welcome ...

It's absolutely fine to require evidence to believe in things, especially the unknown, but it is most certainly not fine to toss names around and just generally look down upon anyone who doesn't share those sentiments. This forum favors civility, not statements such as this.

Right. two pages in, had to delete/edit. If I get another call in, the spirits of moderators past will come in and kill the thread.

Leydenne, I wasn't flaming anyone here. Refill your coffee machine

After reading this, I'll have to agree with whoever said "ghosts? no. demons? yes".

Let me rephrase- If someone takes a lesser opinion of me because I choose not to hold unsubstantiated beliefs as de facto, then they are not worthy of dialogue, in my opinion.

I didn't mention any names or even think anyone on this board conformed to such a definition. To accuse me of "flaming" is patently absurd.

Well, such a person would have a strange definition of "science," then. Science, in general, is an attempt to answer questions. By its nature it does not claim to have answers to questions that it can't reasonably answer with some degree of certainty based on some kind of hard evidence. To believe "only in science" is to believe that science has an explanation for everything, which it obviously doesn't. Yet. That isn't free license to jump to conclusions or acknowledge superstition as fact simply because it hasn't been dis-proven, but it does allow for a fair amount of personal speculation into areas that we can't yet explain using science. Science isn't (necessarily) at odds with superstition or religion. It either has a theory about how something works or it does not...simple as that.

also, a note on topic... can't some of you all either just talk about ghosts or relay information without, I don't know, feeling like you have to win something? I mean... if you don't believe in ghosts, or think the whole thing is goofy, then... oh, I don't know... skip the thread.

@modus - I edited, as I was giving the benefit of the doubt there. But still, it could read differently to others ok? *goes off to get evening coffee anyway*

Silly Leydenne, that's not how the internet works

Surely though, the "Do you think Ghosts are real?" thread title invites many viewpoints, for and against the existence of such?

I understand that my post was ambiguous though.

The worst possible thing to happen is someone might vehemently disagree with someone else.

Hmm, it seems you and me have a different idea of what science is, but that's fine. I believe both science and religion can be and are often flawed, as they both originate from the human mind, which in itself is not without its flaws. You can probably guess that I have a hard time believing in anything with such a viewpoint on the matter, and you'd be right. But I think that's more of a case of me looking too deep into things that really don't go that deep at all. You may be right, and science is merely just another way we humans define "understanding", whereas I've looked at science as a sort of man-made concept (Albeit an extremely beneficial one).

Edit: Err..I think I'm going on too much about this stuff. The thread's about the paranormal, not the validity of science and religion or my crazy pseudo-philosophical views. It's just hard for me to resist.

My sarcasm meter is non-functioning on the internet, but vehement disagreement is absolutely fine to my mind, assuming nothing is in violation of the rules.

*sigh*

As I just wrote to someone, believe it or not, I am trying to keep the thread open so you all can discuss. As long as people can be respectful of each other. What happens in this thread, as has happened before, is some folks get strident and are simply more interested in shouting others down, figuratively speaking. Then it just gets annoying and people get frustrated and cats and dogs are living together... so we close the thread.

Science may at some point in the future prove that ghosts are real... wasn't there a strange case where a sound had become trapped for a long time and this made someone experience what they thought was a haunting? Just because a Ghost is not a dead person walking around doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it can be something scientifically explainable, but just extremely odd.

That Sleep Paralysis thing is scary now you have mentioned it and I read up on it. I have had several dreams in the past where I feel like I'm awake but can't get up (and for some reason I can usually hear my Dad telling me to get up too when this happens). Strangely enough I did not find it scary, when I am unable to move I assume I must still be asleep but having a dream that I am awake.

I have never noticed a dark shape or something holding me down, but now I've read about these "Demons" holding you down I'm going to be freaked out next time.

On the topic of Sleep Paralysis, anyone experienced the same thing but with sight not movement? I woke up a week or two ago and all I could see was bright red for about 30 seconds, it scared the crap out of me. But now I think maybe I actually dreamed that and woke up after the 30 seconds, very strange.

Science, in its intended form, relies on purity of understanding based on evidence and data. It's not about absolutes as much as likelihoods. It never assumes that it's 100% correct and therefore never stops building and refining knowledge. Anything else is biased and is therefore not pure science.

Science is based off of empirical evidence. Religion is based off of a system of beliefs.