Do you think that the Enclave is good?

Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:54 am

Some people try to justify the Enclave's actions. I strongly disagree with them. The Enclave want to kill off all "impure" people, which is their intention. It is an action as well as an intention. However, some people try to justify the Enclave's killing.

If you pay attention to his dialogue, you'll see Eden doesn't want to kill all impure people, he wants to kill all harmful mutations (SMs, rad-creatures, etc). But the only methods he sees as actually being effective is the mFEV, which doesn't discriminate between mutations. He clearly states that the death of people with minor mutations are an unfortunate, but unavoidable collateral effect. And I agree with him on that, I can't really see how his goal (ie restore pre-war America) could possibly come about with giant scorpions and SMs roaming about
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Hannah Barnard
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:24 am

doing nothing but stealing technology and then claiming it, killing wastelanders and pissing me off.


Hey, that's the Outcasts!

One word: Obviously.
As sad as it is, the Enclave is the only competent faction out there. BoS is just a pack of losers who waste resources. If they weren't, I'd support them. But noooo.


Besides, any reasonable Fallout 3 player should realize the fact that the East Coast Enclave is not conducting genocide. They will wipe out the Capital Wasteland with FEV (well, Eden would), but otherwise they wouldn't use FEV as they may have learned from Richardson's mistakes.
Also, Autumn opposed the idea of Genocide. And as Eden is static, he can do nothing about it. Autumn won't stick in the FEV and no one gets killed - except the BoS fan boys of course. Enclave has one purpose: To restore America. BoS has multiple purposes: survive, recruit, destroy, build...
You heard Ashur, too. BoS is too incompetent to actually do something remarkable. They kill until there's nothing to kill and they move on.


Thank you Pistolero.
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Rozlyn Robinson
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:55 am

If you pay attention to his dialogue, you'll see Eden doesn't want to kill all impure people, he wants to kill all harmful mutations (SMs, rad-creatures, etc). But the only methods he sees as actually being effective is the mFEV, which doesn't discriminate between mutations. He clearly states that the death of people with minor mutations are an unfortunate, but unavoidable collateral effect. And I agree with him on that, I can't really see how his goal (ie restore pre-war America) could possibly come about with giant scorpions and SMs roaming about

The FEV final solution isn't the only issue with the Enclave, though. We could take away that plan, and they would still come away just as tarred as they were meant to be.

The Enclave has death squad patrols in the wasteland. They round up undesirables, and execute them.

They lure people into lorries (trucks to you yanks) with the promise of clean, potable water, and then burn them to a crisp with a flamethrower.

Their chief executive officer, a man that receives his share of hero worship on these boards, murders an innocent woman to get her colleague to cooperate. If the main character tells him what he wants to know during an interrogation, he murders him or her in cold blood.

If Vault 101 is uninhabitable, Amata can get caught by the Enclave, where she too will be murdered after ended interrogation.

There are Enclave encampments with Deathclaw cages, but rather than Deathclaws there are dead Wastelanders in them.

There is an Enclave checkpoint, where there is a computer, where you can see the names of members of the "vagrant population," (Raiders and ordinary wastelanders) who have been detained there and executed.

There is a temporary Enclave base set up in one of the sattelite towers, where the ovens are in full service. On the floor below the ovens lie the remains of several wastelanders, ready to be processed.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. The Enclave is a brutal, totalitarian state that crushes all dissent and opposition, and kills all undesirables. Even without the FEV plan, they are still conducting what amounts to ethnic cleansing, only it is not nationality or race that determines who will be purged, but rather DNA as it relates to the prewar stock.

And even if they didn't do that, The Enclave represents a government that has been defunct for 200 years. They have no legal claim to govern America. The United States of America does not exist any longer in the Fallout world, and people have set up their own small political entities. The people of the American mainland no longer have any obligation to a government that disappeared eight generations before they were even born.

People all know this. These are facts that are readily available simply by playing the game. And yet there are still people, who claim that I have misunderstood the game, when I correctly identify the Enclave as the antagonist in the Fallout universe, and not a force for good. That goes so far into denial of plain fact that it is borderline insane. I can take solace in the fact that the developers (both Black Isle and Bethesda) and 95% of the players agree with me, but I am still extremely puzzled over those last 5%, who seem unable to process the relatively simple story told in Fallout 2 and 3.
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Lily
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:19 am

One word: Obviously.
As sad as it is, the Enclave is the only competent faction out there. BoS is just a pack of losers who waste resources. If they weren't, I'd support them. But noooo.


Besides, any reasonable Fallout 3 player should realize the fact that the East Coast Enclave is not conducting genocide. They will wipe out the Capital Wasteland with FEV (well, Eden would), but otherwise they wouldn't use FEV as they may have learned from Richardson's mistakes.
Also, Autumn opposed the idea of Genocide. And as Eden is static, he can do nothing about it. Autumn won't stick in the FEV and no one gets killed - except the BoS fan boys of course. Enclave has one purpose: To restore America. BoS has multiple purposes: survive, recruit, destroy, build...
You heard Ashur, too. BoS is too incompetent to actually do something remarkable. They kill until there's nothing to kill and they move on.

Tada!
Here is your answer :D
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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:30 pm

And even if they didn't do that, The Enclave represents a government that has been defunct for 200 years. They have no legal claim to govern America. The United States of America does not exist any longer in the Fallout world, and people have set up their own small political entities. The people of the American mainland no longer have any obligation to a government that disappeared eight generations before they were even born.

i agree with most of what youre saying.. then again, if there is no true federal government, they have as much the right to form government as anyone else.
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Kim Kay
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:21 am

The FEV final solution isn't the only issue with the Enclave, though. We could take away that plan, and they would still come away just as tarred as they were meant to be.

The Enclave has death squad patrols in the wasteland. They round up undesirables, and execute them.

They lure people into lorries (trucks to you yanks) with the promise of clean, potable water, and then burn them to a crisp with a flamethrower.

Their chief executive officer, a man that receives his share of hero worship on these boards, murders an innocent woman to get her colleague to cooperate. If the main character tells him what he wants to know during an interrogation, he murders him or her in cold blood.

If Vault 101 is uninhabitable, Amata can get caught by the Enclave, where she too will be murdered after ended interrogation.

There are Enclave encampments with Deathclaw cages, but rather than Deathclaws there are dead Wastelanders in them.

There is an Enclave checkpoint, where there is a computer, where you can see the names of members of the "vagrant population," (Raiders and ordinary wastelanders) who have been detained there and executed.

There is a temporary Enclave base set up in one of the sattelite towers, where the ovens are in full service. On the floor below the ovens lie the remains of several wastelanders, ready to be processed.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. The Enclave is a brutal, totalitarian state that crushes all dissent and opposition, and kills all undesirables. Even without the FEV plan, they are still conducting what amounts to ethnic cleansing, only it is not nationality or race that determines who will be purged, but rather DNA as it relates to the prewar stock.

And even if they didn't do that, The Enclave represents a government that has been defunct for 200 years. They have no legal claim to govern America. The United States of America does not exist any longer in the Fallout world, and people have set up their own small political entities. The people of the American mainland no longer have any obligation to a government that disappeared eight generations before they were even born.

People all know this. These are facts that are readily available simply by playing the game. And yet there are still people, who claim that I have misunderstood the game, when I correctly identify the Enclave as the antagonist in the Fallout universe, and not a force for good. That goes so far into denial of plain fact that it is borderline insane. I can take solace in the fact that the developers (both Black Isle and Bethesda) and 95% of the players agree with me, but I am still extremely puzzled over those last 5%, who seem unable to process the relatively simple story told in Fallout 2 and 3.


I thought correct then, that the Enclave is a bad organisation whose goal aspect is to kill lesser beings, so be it, mutated humans, ghouls or even Un-radiated Human Beings..
Ive been reading through some of the dialouge and Fallout Wiki and all seems brilliantly scripted and am extremtly impressed as to the level of detail which hs gone into the "Histroy" behind the game and the information which is obtained behind the scences and not through gameplay..
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Lillian Cawfield
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:48 am

good and evil are just lables, they mean nothing, they just express the opinion of the speaker.
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Stephani Silva
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:22 pm

If you pay attention to his dialogue, you'll see Eden doesn't want to kill all impure people, he wants to kill all harmful mutations (SMs, rad-creatures, etc). But the only methods he sees as actually being effective is the mFEV, which doesn't discriminate between mutations. He clearly states that the death of people with minor mutations are an unfortunate, but unavoidable collateral effect. And I agree with him on that, I can't really see how his goal (ie restore pre-war America) could possibly come about with giant scorpions and SMs roaming about


He wants to kill all "impure" people. If they have a minor mutation, he wants them dead. I think you should pay attention. The Enclave only want the "purest" humans to live(a.k.a. themselves).
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Matt Bigelow
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:59 am

The FEV final solution isn't the only issue with the Enclave, though. We could take away that plan, and they would still come away just as tarred as they were meant to be.

The Enclave has death squad patrols in the wasteland. They round up undesirables, and execute them.

They lure people into lorries (trucks to you yanks) with the promise of clean, potable water, and then burn them to a crisp with a flamethrower.

Their chief executive officer, a man that receives his share of hero worship on these boards, murders an innocent woman to get her colleague to cooperate. If the main character tells him what he wants to know during an interrogation, he murders him or her in cold blood.

If Vault 101 is uninhabitable, Amata can get caught by the Enclave, where she too will be murdered after ended interrogation.

There are Enclave encampments with Deathclaw cages, but rather than Deathclaws there are dead Wastelanders in them.

There is an Enclave checkpoint, where there is a computer, where you can see the names of members of the "vagrant population," (Raiders and ordinary wastelanders) who have been detained there and executed.

There is a temporary Enclave base set up in one of the sattelite towers, where the ovens are in full service. On the floor below the ovens lie the remains of several wastelanders, ready to be processed.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. The Enclave is a brutal, totalitarian state that crushes all dissent and opposition, and kills all undesirables. Even without the FEV plan, they are still conducting what amounts to ethnic cleansing, only it is not nationality or race that determines who will be purged, but rather DNA as it relates to the prewar stock.

And even if they didn't do that, The Enclave represents a government that has been defunct for 200 years. They have no legal claim to govern America. The United States of America does not exist any longer in the Fallout world, and people have set up their own small political entities. The people of the American mainland no longer have any obligation to a government that disappeared eight generations before they were even born.

People all know this. These are facts that are readily available simply by playing the game. And yet there are still people, who claim that I have misunderstood the game, when I correctly identify the Enclave as the antagonist in the Fallout universe, and not a force for good. That goes so far into denial of plain fact that it is borderline insane. I can take solace in the fact that the developers (both Black Isle and Bethesda) and 95% of the players agree with me, but I am still extremely puzzled over those last 5%, who seem unable to process the relatively simple story told in Fallout 2 and 3.


It makes no difference what we say. Their minds will never be changed. I have seen the same facts pointed out, yet none of the Enclave justifiers will ever listen. Also, when a very thorough and well-said post like yours is posted, the Enclave justifiers never have a good reply, if any at all, to these posts that truly show the Enclave for what they are. I have said the same thing in previous threads, but people continue to support the Enclave's "heroic" roles in the Fallout Universe. :shrug:
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:32 am

We going to do a fair comparison or just FO3's enclave? Lets take a look at the BoS. The BoS Outcasts are the real BoS, not these east coast BoS...
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Marguerite Dabrin
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:14 pm

We going to do a fair comparison or just FO3's enclave? Lets take a look at the BoS. The BoS Outcasts are the real BoS, not these east coast BoS...


We are not talking about the BoS. The Enclave's plot in Fallout 3 are copied directly from Fallout 2. We are including all Fallout games. Also, Fallout 3 is canon.
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Richus Dude
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:20 pm

hmmm not that i want to make it a hotpoint, but i am kind of wondering what political affiliations people on here have in real life and how it may effect their views of the factions in this game
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Krista Belle Davis
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:03 pm

Their motives may be good but the way they accomplish them is bad. I mean I understand killing all the Super Mutants,Ghouls(I hate ghouls :lol: ), and all other mutations. But the civilized members of society like rivet city members,megaton members, Tenpenny tower members, BHoS, merchants, etc. should stay alive.

Also the Enclave, like the real government, is corrupt beyond belief. The soldiers are brutal, the leaders are lazy, and their president is a [Censored] Computer!
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Markie Mark
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:56 pm

Enclave: Chaotic Good (Ends out weigh the means), they want a mutant-free wasteland. They want it to be safe for the clean-bloods (them and vault folk)
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:15 pm

It makes no difference what we say. Their minds will never be changed.I have seen the same facts pointed out, yet none of the Enclave justifiers will ever listen.


haha take a look in the mirror dude. you've bin harping over the same little fact over and over no matter what anyone says. I've seen lots of arguments that could show the Enclave as being "good".
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JERMAINE VIDAURRI
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:11 am

Enclave: Chaotic Good (Ends out weigh the means), they want a mutant-free wasteland. They want it to be safe for the clean-bloods (them and vault folk)

Unbelievable. When will this end? If you were in the Fallout Universe, you would most likely be "unclean". Besides, what vault folk? After 200 years, there are very few vault-dwellers left. Besides, they are MURDERING innocent people. There are people who the Enclave would consider "unclean" in our own modern world. Tell me, would you go and kill them all, all in the name of a "pure" America? Why can't you Enclave justifiers see the truth laying right in front of you? How can you possibly try to justify genocide?
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tannis
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:20 am

Enclave: Chaotic Good (Ends out weigh the means), they want a mutant-free wasteland. They want it to be safe for the clean-bloods (them and vault folk)

oh? then why experiment on the vault folk? why even make a vault 27?
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benjamin corsini
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:15 am

haha take a look in the mirror dude. you've bin harping over the same little fact over and over no matter what anyone says. I've seen lots of arguments that could show the Enclave as being "good".

I've been repeating what I have been saying because you do not listen. How can you possibly accept genocide?
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lolli
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:29 pm

I've been repeating what I have been saying because you do not listen. How can you possibly accept genocide?


Fine, no reasoning with you. Not worth my time. And besides most of the wastelanders are cold-blooded killers. But whatever, no reasoning with a BoS fanatic anyway...
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kirsty joanne hines
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:16 am

the motives of enclave are sketcy from the gate.. lots of "pure blood" americans who thought they were the piece of the puzzle that would restore america back to its former glory after the dust settled were offed for no reason..

its not a picking sides thing.. its an enclave is evil thing
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Sabrina garzotto
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:31 am

Fine, no reasoning with you. Not worth my time. And besides most of the wastelanders are cold-blooded killers. But whatever, no reasoning with a BoS fanatic anyway...


I'm not even defending the BoS.

I guess there is no reasoning with those would see the world "cleansed" of the "impure" through psychotic genocide.
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Eve(G)
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:47 pm

I am a full Enclave Fan :) They are the U.S. and I am American and 100% support them. Just like I do our troops in Iraq.
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Lalla Vu
 
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Post » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:57 pm

I am a full Enclave Fan :) They are the U.S. and I am American and 100% support them. Just like I do our troops in Iraq.


There is nothing wrong with being an Enclave fan, but only if you recognize them as antagonists who are not good. Being an Enclave fan doesn't mean supporting genocide. Why don't you Enclave Justifiers(not fans, but justifiers) actually come up with a good argument in response to mine? I'm sorry, but I feel like I am talking to supporters of genocide.
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Jesus Duran
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:35 am

I am a full Enclave Fan :) They are the U.S. and I am American and 100% support them. Just like I do our troops in Iraq.

im still waiting on an explaination of vault experiments, specifically those that the experiment yeilds no positive results whatsoever.

its cool if youre just trying to stir it up.. but if you honestly believe what youre saying, i would love an explaination
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kennedy
 
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Post » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:16 am

good and evil are just lables, they mean nothing, they just express the opinion of the speaker.


war does not determine who is right only who is left springs to mind as well. whoever wins a war will paint the other side as being evil. the brotherhood of steel shot ghouls on site if i recall in the mall but this is not what they say. they fight the "good fight". i do think that the enclave does some horrible things that can`t be forgiven though.
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Kat Stewart
 
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