What? Akatosh was the first of the gods to bring himself into being, after which the other gods found the process easier, according to the lore. Even the Aldmer worshipped Akatosh before the Alessian rebellion, bu they referred to him as Auri-El or something along those lines.

Akatosh is a mix match of elements of both Auri-el and Alduin. There was no mention of a being known or fitting the description of Akatosh in either the manish panethons of the nords nor the merish pantheons of the Elves. Akatosh only comes into being by that name and by that form during Alessia, who took elements of both her nordic allies gods and those of her merish worshiping bretheren to create a god all could agree to worship.

Yet we know that Akatosh isn't a fiction, as the entire concept of the Amulet of Kings derives from Akatosh's power. If Alessia had simply created the concept of Akatosh out of nothing, if Akatosh wasn't a very real and powerful being, he wouldn't have been able to pretty much seal off Oblivion and prevent the Daedra from entering Nirn en masse.

Its called Mythopia. Akatosh is powerful because the Alessia fooled everyone into believing and worshiping him, thus he was made so that he always existed because people believe he had always existed.

Yes, I see your point, but again, we know he has to exist, because we have definite evidence of his existence, even beyond the fact that his shrines do work: He managed to effectively (although not totally) seal off Oblivion, so that while individual mages could summon Daedra, the Daedra could not simply flood Mundus. The chinks in the seal were few and far between, and only allowed Daedra to cross over under specific and difficult circumstances. This is why there are the occasional Daedra on Nirn but not floods of them. Once the dragonfires went out and were unable to be relit with the (near) end of the Septim line, Daedra started opening Oblivion gates and crossing over. Mehrunes Dagon himself crossed over in the end, and was only able to be stopped by Martin Septim destroying the Amulet of Kings, becoming an actual avatar of Akatosh, defeating Dagon, and sending his spirit back to Oblivion.

I can only presume that since Daedra are once more rare to find in Mundus after the Oblivion Crisis, that this process somehow made the seal between Oblivion and Mundus permanent, even after the Amulet was destroyed.

So while I see your point about how the mythological process works, in the context of TES and the events we know actually happened because we played through them in the game Oblivion, we do know that Akatosh exists and has incredible amounts of power, and cannot simply be a fiction of Alessia's creation, sewing together varied pre-existing mythic concepts and characters.

And now you know the real reason for their abrupt departure.

I don't know why he can't be just that. He was a god who was created by man as a champion of man and his worship was spread continent wide by the Empire who carried his name every where they went. Belief is what empowers the Aedra, and because Akatosh had one of the biggest followings of cource he was super powerful. The point being is theres no record of 'Akatosh' before Alessia. He was made so that he always existed by the belief of his followers. So yes, he's always existed, but that just becasue mortals believe he has always existed.

I guess the Nord are the next race to loose a large portion of their homeland then. Man, Tamriel have been on a ride for a while now, with impending ends of the world, usurpsion, evil demigods who rise, war and breaks in time itself.

There's no direct evidence, again, that things work this way. As far as I remember, only one book - can't remember the title, but it's in both Oblivion and Skyrim - refers to the possibility that the gods are powered by the belief of their worshippers. Even that one source only mentions it as a theory, with nothing to indicate that the writer held this view, and I can't remember any other source espousing or even discussing such a view.

It would seem to be contradicted by the idea that the Aedra precede the mortal races. The Elves believe they are descended from the Aedra, if I remember rightly, and Men believe they were created by the Aedra. So it seems a bit difficult to imagine the Aedra requiring worship if there was a period of time where they existed before there were any worshippers to power them.

That said, even if the Aedra are powered by worship, nothing indicates that an Aedra can be brought into being by people worshipping a previously fictional deity.

Mike Kirkbride acutally told us directly that the Aedra are shaped by mortal beliefs.

Where is that? I don't really keep up with all the interviews with the developers and all that. I'm just going off the books I read in-game and the events I see in the games.

I'll have to do some digging in the lore fourm to find it again.

The Rift, by geology, is definitely a caldera, with some indications of being active. But keep in mind that such features rarely, if ever, exist in isolation. Look at the proximity of Vaarnenfell to the Rift area; and the mountain range that connects the regions. Moutains we know are upthrust granite. We could be looking at one of two things: either a plate boundary, with both Rift and Red Mountain being a very weak spot in the crust, or a rebound subsidence, where two plates collided, created the range, then moved apart slightly, so you would actually have a plate fissure, similar to the Reelfoot Rift beneath the Mississippi River channel. If the former, then both Red Mountain and the Rift could be part of Nirn's own 'circle of fire'.....but we'd need to know what features were out in the eastern direction to know that. More likely its a rebound subsidence, as you'll note that there is plenty of evidence of seismic activity in the collapses of solid stone structures, but not a lot of loose scree around the mountain bases to indicate a lot of repetitive quakes. So if it's like the Reelfoot zone, you are looking at lots of minimal quakes, with -major- events every few hundred to few thousand years. The explosion of Red Mountain might have relieved a lot of pressure, and saved that part of Skyrim for a long time. Or it could have destroyed a force balance, and the whole place is living on borrowed time.

We shall see......

I still kinda like the idea that a weak spot in the crust was created when Lorkhan's Heart was cast down to Nirn, with the volcanic Red Mountain resulting. It makes me sound smart.

To say it's "Just Political Scheming" does Akatosh a great injustice.

From my experience with geological events, and what I have seen happen in the past couple years here on Earth, large events, such as the eruption of Red Mountain could indeed cause other large events. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but there is some circumstantial evidence to support this. Take 2009 through 2011 for instance. The Earth experienced several large Earth Quakes, two of which occurred on the Pacific Ring of Fire. One in Chile, one in Japan. I believe we can discount the New Zealand quake, because it was no where near the scale of the other two events.

The Chilean Earthquake hit in February 2010, while The Japan quake hit in March 2011. The Chilean Quake reached 8.8 on the Richter Scale, and the Japanese quake hit 8.9. Of course, this could be pure coincidence as to the size, and the closeness in dates of both quakes, but it could also mean a link some where.

If there is a link, it is reasonable to assume that the release of pressure in Red Mountain could also create an instability, and cause a release of Pressure at Bonestrewn Crest.

I was just exploring this region again a few hours ago. I noticed a few things about the area. There are actually a few small mounds that could represent past releases of Magma. Upon further inspection, the rock was indeed black, as if it is ancient cooled Magma. Not only that, prolonged exploration of the area shows that there is 'Rumblings' coming from some where. This was definitely not Dragon caused, as I had already taken care of it when I started that Exploration. As you spend more time in the area, you'll notice low vibrations, as well as the occasional vision shaking. It's best heard with Headphones.

And people say there's no depth in Skyrim's world....

Remember that time when I got a salmon helmet from Muhammad?

I think we're getting abit confused on things.

while certain lore errors are not debatable, in the akatosh and alduin topic, there's more possibilities.

For example, while the mortal CONCEPT of Akatosh may not have achieved a recognizable form until Alessia, it doesn't mean we can rule out the possibility that he still DID exist before being given the name Akatosh.

Keep in mind Paarthurnax himself calls Alduin the first born, and even goes so far as to say something along the lines of "troubled like all first born"

we know the elder scrolls exist, a piece of creation. We know they can be used to alter time itself, and we know dragons are more susceptible to time, by their own admitance, than others, and we know Akatosh is the deity of time, and chooses a dragon as his avatar.

The volcano doesnt erupt becouse Thalmor is keeping us safe.
x)..jk

Im no lore buff like you all, but I thought the et'Ada were parts of Magnus that helped him when he was doing his architect thing and they retreated with him after he realized he had been tricked by Lorkhan. The et'Ada leaving the holes in the sky known as stars, Magnus leaving the Sun of Nirn named Magnus. Or was this before the Daedra and Aedra? And I thought the Daedra and Aedra were split after the Anu and Padomay (Sithis) event?

Makes sense, guess that's why the only backwards flying dragon in all of Nirn lives here

You're getting your terms mixed up. All the gods are together referred to as the et'Ada. The ones that participated in the creation of Mundus are called the Aedra, those who did not are the Daedra. Those Aedra that said "well, screw this" and packed it in are the ones that left. Magnus was the prime one, with the lesser spirits that followed him being called the Magna ge, if I remember right.

And although some might equate the Aedra with Anu and the Daedra with Padomay/Sithis, this isn't a black-and-white division. Lorkhan himself, who is definitely Aedra, has been associated with Padomay and the attendant associations of evil, at least in those mythological schemes where Lorkhan tricked the other Aedra into creating Nirn. Obviously some human belief systems treat him differently, as in the Nords who call him Shor and view him as the patron god of humanity, who made a necessary sacrifice to bring humanity into being through the creation of Mundus. If I remember this correctly, the elves would have existed anyway, since they are descended (I think) from the Ehlnofey, which were lesser spirits who existed since before the creation of Mundus, but humans were created by the gods, and hence Mundus was necessary for humanity to come to be.

But note that the largest collection of ebony ore in Skyrim is not far from Skyrim's caldera. Also note the vast amount of ebony gear that Mehrunes Dagon's minions have.