2469 Armor. 3199 Damage using (Smithing, Alchemy, Enchanting : V - Skyrim

» Mon May 21, 2012 11:29 am

This is the main reason why i hate Steam auto-patching the game: Some player will eventually start crusading and go "Omg boo-hoo cheating the game is broken - fixxorz B!!" and B reacts without thinking and screws up a fun power-level SINGLE PLAYER game for the rest.

The fun with Morrowind was that you could powerlevel yourself beyond anything you could possibly dream of. And it is also what svcked with Oblivion - because you could not!

To the OP: Nice work

To Bethesda: Keep your fingers out of this. The game is not broken - people do not HAVE to play like this - and if they do, it is their own fault if they get bored. As of now the game has lots of potential FUN in it. Do not ruin that.

Thanks.

» Mon May 21, 2012 12:04 pm

Don't forget about Orc's daily ability. Double that damage for sixty seconds. Damage to you is reduced by half, but I don't know if that doubles your armor limit or just halves incoming damage. Either way it makes this build, who is invincible already, even more god like for sixty seconds.

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:12 pm

Looks like I am going with a Breton instead of a Dunmer and be focusing perks on Alchemy, Smithing, Enchanting, One Handed, Heavy Armor, and Sneak. Can I even fit Archery in there...?

My question is this: playing the game legitimately without the console, how is this achieved without gimping your character early on? Like, focusing on Heavy Armor and grinding it until the skill reaches level 100 seems like your robbing yourself from the fun of the game. I was wondering what your thoughts were.

» Mon May 21, 2012 10:09 am

Can't really argue with the Straw Man. This still seems like a very extreme corner case. I'm skeptical that your 'well designer character' requires you to use the exact same build as the OP. Also, you still have to sacrifice hundreds of points in Armor to keep yourself from getting one-shot by a decent Frost Mage.

But I'll bite, and discuss rebalancing a bit.

I doubt they will completely remove certain enchants from the game. They did implement a soft cap using diminishing returns, but I guess they could nerf the power of enchants using a patch?

What is the highest damage a player could expect to receive in a single blow? I'm seeing Ancient Dragon Bites at about 300 damage. So assuming Morrowind-style damage reductions calcs, it takes 1500 armor to reduce that to 50 points of damage? 2500 points of armor reduces it to 32 points. What would you consider is the lowest a player should be allowed to reduce an incoming 300 point attack? Or would you prefer to rebalance weapon damage too, so it became an even trade of blow vs blow? Ancient Dragon has 3100 hp, we max out at 800, so if we traded blows only, we'd both die at the same time? What would you call balance here, assuming we can't retcon the enchantment tree?

I don't think you understand what a straw man argument is, and I already gave my suggestions for rebalancing. It's not about just nerfing it, it's about getting rid of a broken mechanic. Though I suppose they could even leave the skill boost, but cap enchants, potions, and armor improvements at what you'd get with just 100 of that skill, potion or enchant stacking should make them any better. Skill improving pots and enchants would still have some benefit, but only for skills players don't already have 100 in.

The character the OP is using is, I'm afraid, clearly the optimal character. It is the best archer, the best thief - it gets the highest sneak attacks at least -, and it could even be adjusted to be the best mage. Basically, the ideal character for any role should have max smithing, enchanting, and alchemy just to give them the best possible defense if not offense. In a game like Skyrim, it's disappointing that there is such an obvious optimal build.

» Mon May 21, 2012 11:34 am

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??....this makes me mad. ive spent the last few days leveling only pure mage, spending all perks into magic skills. and i thought i was doing decent. Then i come on here and read these quad digit numbers of damage and armor? seriously wtf. I dont get it at all. i guess mages are weak and i have been wasting my time.

and after reading all this i STILL dont fully understand how those numbers are being reached.

I dont want to reroll another character...

» Mon May 21, 2012 3:27 am

You're right, I had forgotten that. So it sounds like there is actually room for even more improvement by optimizing the process further. Also, regarding Azuras Star.. is the Black version more powerful than the normal version?

Are you referring to the dragon priest masks? because I don't think you can disenchant them.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Krosis

This item right?

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:27 am

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??....this makes me mad. ive spent the last few days leveling only pure mage, spending all perks into magic skills. and i thought i was doing decent. Then i come on here and read these quad digit numbers of damage and armor? seriously wtf. I dont get it at all. i guess mages are weak and i have been wasting my time.

and after reading all this i STILL dont fully understand how those numbers are being reached.

I dont want to reroll another character...

you do realize this is a single player game right?
not some competition, no biggie if your character isn't the best possible build as long as you have fun

personally I don't like "breaking the game" like this
so I don't, but I can understand why people would and I have to admit even I messed around with stuff like this in MW

» Mon May 21, 2012 8:53 am

its not fun knowing i could be dealing 3000 dmg to something instead of around 100.

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:39 pm

Problem is that the line becomes so blurry between what's an exploit and what's just min/maxing or choosing good perks/skills/whatever when the game has the total mess of balance issues that it does right now - most of them which were probably easily avoidable.

» Mon May 21, 2012 12:53 pm

I don't think you understand what a straw man argument is, and I already gave my suggestions for rebalancing. It's not about just nerfing it, it's about getting rid of a broken mechanic. Though I suppose they could even leave the skill boost, but cap enchants, potions, and armor improvements at what you'd get with just 100 of that skill, potion or enchant stacking should make them any better. Skill improving pots and enchants would still have some benefit, but only for skills players don't already have 100 in.

The character the OP is using is, I'm afraid, clearly the optimal character. It is the best archer, the best thief - it gets the highest sneak attacks at least -, and it could even be adjusted to be the best mage. Basically, the ideal character for any role should have max smithing, enchanting, and alchemy just to give them the best possible defense if not offense. In a game like Skyrim, it's disappointing that there is such an obvious optimal build.

You set yourself up as a member of one side of the discussion, then immediately took the fall. Sounds close enough to Straw Man to warrant the parallel.

I will admit that your revised suggestion would make a decent patch if B decided to implement it (capping +skill and +effectiveness to 100).

The OPs character would have to give up quite a bit to make an Epic Pure Mage, but if they were willing to wear any kind of armor, you're right.. it is pretty powerful. Getting 3 skills to 100 means you're a fairly high level, which is about when I would expect my character to start performing like a hero. I honestly don't understand why you feel the need to inflict your definition of fun on other players. Is every creative use of existing mechanics forbidden?

If there is one exploit I dislike, it's that I get the same amount of Crafting EXP for an Iron Dagger as I do for an Ebony Sword.

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:08 am

whats the point of trying to be invincible in this game? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of an adventure?

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:41 am

Meh as long as you can get 100% poison resistance and magic resistance being careful and aggressive will keep you from dying anyway.

» Mon May 21, 2012 3:23 am

Is there any way to play this without excessive grinding (maxing out each of the required skills one at a time) or use of the console? Just curious.

» Mon May 21, 2012 9:18 am

its not fun knowing i could be dealing 3000 dmg to something instead of around 100.

but grinding a bunch of skills up to a 100 is?
personally I'd rather adventure a bit and just level up naturally as i go along as opposed to dissecting the game mechanics in order to maximize efficiency
this is an adventure game not a math test XD

but to each his own I guess

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:21 am

whats the point of trying to be invincible in this game? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of an adventure?

For me, something like what the OP posted is a faraway end goal. I'm not going to sit down and grind towards it as that defeats the purpose of the game, as you said. I'm just going to keep it in the back of my mind as I play the game, as a framework of sorts. When I finally hit level 50+, I can be pretty uber, even if I deviate a bit. It also opens up a lot of other stuff... for instance, now I know I can get away with Glass Armor, as long as I get the right Perks, and build it the right way. I don't have to go into the end-game wearing Daedric or Dragon Bone if I want to survive. This gives me more freedom to be creative with my character.

Also, I'm more excited about the ability to craft actual Artifacts than I am about the side effect of being more dangerous than normal. How often do you get that opportunity in a game?

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:35 pm

I have been experimenting with crafting and noticed a huge synergy between Smithing / Enchanting / Alchemy. Here are some of my results:
*snip*

Thanks for all the info! Part of the fun of this open world type game is maxing out on the gear!!!

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but is there a level and/or perk cap in Skyrim?

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:17 am

I expect and hence assumed that enchants and potions would have no effect once u reached 100 in a craft.
And i didnt care, or even tried to test it out because...really, there is no need for such high stats to begin with, even on master... lvl 32 with dragonbone armor & daedric greatsword is enough ownage already. (and i havnt even enchanted them yet)
Gotta keep the game fun.

So i really hope Bethesda is gonna fix this, since i seriously cant believe that this isnt a bug.
And the whole argument of its SP and not MP is plain invalid.
Personally this 'bug' wont affect me since i wont bother trying to get it, but the simple fact that it's in the game is just :banghead:

Every single game needs to be balanced to draw a clear line for the players, if they are successfull in the game it should be due to being good, they should not have to wonder if it's because something is bugged or exploit ect.. otherwise there is no sence of achievement -> boring.

» Mon May 21, 2012 1:26 am

but grinding a bunch of skills up to a 100 is?
personally I'd rather adventure a bit and just level up naturally as i go along as opposed to dissecting the game mechanics in order to maximize efficiency
this is an adventure game not a math test XD

but to each his own I guess

couldnt agree more, ive been following this thread and as much as "big numbers" appeals to me, i think it would break the game far to quicker. i want a "challenge". i dont want to plough thru this game with "self-made god mode". It would make completing the game very routine and then for me just a waste of money. Perhaps id do it on a 2nd character but for my first character, for me its all about adventure and challenge.

» Mon May 21, 2012 8:16 am

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??....this makes me mad. ive spent the last few days leveling only pure mage, spending all perks into magic skills. and i thought i was doing decent. Then i come on here and read these quad digit numbers of damage and armor? seriously wtf. I dont get it at all. i guess mages are weak and i have been wasting my time.

and after reading all this i STILL dont fully understand how those numbers are being reached.

I dont want to reroll another character...

well Mage is still more fun, even if you can only get a 50% dmg bonus overall
and the mage would win against a warrior even with this stats
because dual cast spells stagger, and you cannot dodge lighting spells, so the warrior would slowly(very) die

but i still feel like enchanting ist a must have on master, undependent of other factors, even as a Mage
my destrution spells cost no mana because of enchanting, with up to 50 expert spells to kill a dragon priest that is a must

» Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??....this makes me mad. ive spent the last few days leveling only pure mage, spending all perks into magic skills. and i thought i was doing decent. Then i come on here and read these quad digit numbers of damage and armor? seriously wtf. I dont get it at all. i guess mages are weak and i have been wasting my time.

and after reading all this i STILL dont fully understand how those numbers are being reached.

I dont want to reroll another character...

I'm not going to say mages are weak, they're pretty fun and plenty viable, but their potential is below a weapon user. Why? Not because of those numbers. All melee/bow users have enchants that increase damage done with their preferred weapon by x%; mages do not. Unless this changes, I believe min/maxers will avoid the mage. That said, my mage is still a blast. Definitely going to keep playing it.

» Mon May 21, 2012 11:49 am

Is there any way to play this without excessive grinding (maxing out each of the required skills one at a time) or use of the console? Just curious.

just play the game, and grab soul gems as you go through dungeons, and mine ore as you go through caves. If you've got extra money, you can buy iron ore and petty soul gems from vendors as you go as well. Buy the house in whitefall, and marry yseolda or whatever her name is, as she's nice, and you'll get 100 gold every 24 hours, which can go by quick if you fast travel for quests. When you have a couple hundred iron ore/leather straps, and a hundred plus petty gems filled, you're ready to do the "abandoned house" quest to get the mace that lets you capture souls.

» Mon May 21, 2012 4:28 am

Oh, that - I think daggers just aren't considered "one handed weapons" by perks/enchantments/potions, because someone once said the 1handed tree perk (5 ranks, does +20% damage per rank) didn't affect them either.

Sounds like something that was intentionally done to prevent the x15 critical bonus from turning into x30 or more...

Hang on, is this confirmed? Daggers aren't effected by one handed tree perks?

» Mon May 21, 2012 10:54 am

I'm not sure what some people are complaining about when it comes to "balance".
Stuff like this was extremely prevalent in Morrowind and Oblivion.
It was a lot of fun to loop enhance alchemy potions and create a crazy potion that's 1000% more powerful, or mess around with super speed or super jumping.
I remember in Oblivion, I put the right mix of enchantments on my dagger so that I could kill Mehrunes Dagon.
It's fine.

» Mon May 21, 2012 5:42 am

Hang on, is this confirmed? Daggers aren't effected by one handed tree perks?

My daggers are definitely benefiting from both my one-handed skill as well as the armsman perks (both my dagger and sword are enhanced in the same ratio as their base damage).
However, upon equipping a bonus % to "one-handed" item, only my sword improves in damage (at least the number on screen). So it's almost certainly another bug.

» Mon May 21, 2012 5:16 am

Are you referring to the dragon priest masks? because I don't think you can disenchant them.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Krosis

This item right?

That is that item, did you try to disenchant it ? Im gonna be able to test it tommorow so I will know for sure. It might be not possible to disenchant it because its a quest item but what about not quest items that are unique like the arc-mage robe then ?