Acrobatics Skill Tree : V - Skyrim

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:19 am

I miss jumping across water.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:50 am

I've never seen a point to acrobatics, and it's even more apparent now as to why it was removed. Given how the game feels more "realistic" an acrobatic tree would just break that sense of weight.

read this sentence very carefully:

I hate that my fantasy shock-damage bow wielding feline-hominid can not run faster or jump higher than my green-skinned-sabre-toothed orc who uses the power of his voice to rend dragons.

Where does realism come into play there in any way shape or form?

meh, anyway. what if instead of creating an entirely new one there was an 'agility' tree that combined some of the useful perks from lockpicking, pickpocketing and added some for jumping & footspeed. it could be a trident shape and so you could perk up along those three main veins..

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:13 am

I really do wish there was some way to increase my jump hieght. In earlier games Acrobatics worked as a decent stand in for the fact that your character can't climb. Unfortunately Acrobatics as a skill would cause problems in skyrim because there would be no way to really prevent yourself from leveling that skill. No matter what you are going to need to jump and that's going to make a player gain levels they aren't ready for like it did if you took it as a major skill in earlier games. That said, it's bloody idiotic that in Skyrim my character is getting blocked by chest high walls and rocks any normal person could just climb over and it's stupid you can't jump while running.

It's also stupid you can't at least fight with a dagger or fists while swimming. An Argonian is helpless when in the water? Seriously Bethesda?

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:40 am

I really do wish there was some way to increase my jump hieght. In earlier games Acrobatics worked as a decent stand in for the fact that your character can't climb. Unfortunately Acrobatics as a skill would cause problems in skyrim because there would be no way to really prevent yourself from leveling that skill. No matter what you are going to need to jump and that's going to make a player gain levels they aren't ready for like it did if you took it as a major skill in earlier games. That said, it's bloody idiotic that in Skyrim my character is getting blocked by chest high walls and rocks any normal person could just climb over and it's stupid you can't jump while running.

It's also stupid you can't at least fight with a dagger or fists while swimming. An Argonian is helpless when in the water? Seriously Bethesda?

I dont remember in Arena if you could climb walls but I know in Daggerfall you can

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:36 am

Anotehr perk to consider is reduced fall damager, or able to fall from x height without taking damage, so long as it doesn't get too crazy. No more than 25 - 30 feet for zero damage. This is one of the things that the acrobatics skil did in Oblivion besides make you jump higher.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:45 am

I missed the ability to dodge with high Acrobatics in Oblivion. I loved backflipping through town on the way to the market.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:55 am

In morrowind it was insane. I could jump 10 stories up easily with high acrobatics and no armor. Add a jumpspell and you can jump across the entire map in chunks, or a single leap.

Oblivion had it more realistic in terms with TES. In Skyrim think of sitting in the rafters in Dragonsreach waiting to put a poisoned arrow in the yarl.

Ah, the scrolls of the Icarus' flight :') never forget those

On topic, acrobatics would have to fit in one side of the archetype triangle (Stealth obviously), but then they should add 2 more skills. I can imagine H2H for warrior, but for magic? I mean, mysticism is already split up, and morrowinds enchanting is back, so...

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:28 am

If there is one thing I dislike about skyrim (aside from the still existing level scaling and terrible guilds). It's the heavy feel your character has. I swear even my thief feels like he's dragging around 2 corpses tied to his heels.

I think we need some sort of acrobatics / athletics combined skilltree. This could include sprint jump (the why hell can't we already do this?!?!). water jumping ,climbing of sorts, higher jumps, faster sprints, dodges, some sort of reflex button that would trigger slow motion if someone is about to hit you with a kill blow, allowing you to dodge it. There are plenty of options. It really bothers me, that me supposed nible athletic thief feels like he's made from rock

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:27 am

My Vision Acrobatic Tree

Jump while Sprinting

Jump 2x Higher

Defensive Jump to Left/Right Side

Defensive Back Flip

Jump 3x Higher

Attack while Jumping

Jump off of Water Surface

Jump 4x Higher

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:26 am

True Nords dont do acrobatics they just chop your head off with an axe Indianan Jones whip vs gun style.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:33 am

True Nords dont do acrobatics they just chop your head off with an axe Indianan Jones whip vs gun style.

I have always been a nord. I really hope they consider this and bring it back for the community

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:58 am

I miss Acrobatics too, but bringing back a skill mechanic to increase jumping ability will mean little unless the environment itself supports the mechanic.

In othe words, there would need to be rewards for having a high Acrobatics skill: More rooftops, windows or trapdoors you could enter (to bypass certain obstacles), cities with more buildings period.

Outside of cities, you'd need dungeons designed for high-Acro characters, with at least a couple places where you could find hidden loot, a different way around an obstacle, or a nice sniping perch.

Same thing in the outside environment.

If we just suddenly had an Acrobatics skill, I'm afraid it would only point out how the game was not designed to support it. Which would make for a fairly meaningless skill, except to feel happy as you're jumping around.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:45 am

I miss Acrobatics too, but bringing back a skill mechanic to increase jumping ability will mean little unless the environment itself supports the mechanic.

In othe words, there would need to be rewards for having a high Acrobatics skill: More rooftops, windows or trapdoors you could enter (to bypass certain obstacles), cities with more buildings period.

Outside of cities, you'd need dungeons designed for high-Acro characters, with at least a couple places where you could find hidden loot, a different way around an obstacle, or a nice sniping perch.

Same thing in the outside environment.

If we just suddenly had an Acrobatics skill, I'm afraid it would only point out how the game was not designed to support it. Which would make for a fairly meaningless skill, except to feel happy as you're jumping around.

I use the mod on PC but I very much want it for consoles, I have had tons of fun just jumping on the houses and sneaking around. I also found it rewarding in dungeons where I can get on top of certain things and pot shot the baddies with arrows,.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:18 am

I'd like to be able to jump while running, and the dodge roll would be an awesome addition I think.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:32 am

Acrobatics is a fairly well missed skill from prior games, according to a fair amount of people here, however many cite the ability to leap 30 feet in the air ruins immersion and are glad that Acrobatics are gone, so... here's this thread; the idea of conforming the old skill to the new system.

First off, the Skill itself, based on level, could be tied to how fast you move when walking or running. For instance, for every level you have in the skill you move .5% - 1% faster. This wouldn't make you a super speed demon as you wouldn't be running Mach 5 but could be useful universally amongst all archetypes.

Second, the actual Perks do not, and should not need to be limited to "Add X Jump Height," "Add +X% Movement Speed," but rather could add some very useful, and very simple, advantages.

Jump while running anyone?

A dodge roll?

How about enhanced movement speed while blocking?

Faster movement speed when over encumbered?

Stealth running?

Faster movement speed when Health is below a certain point?

Faster attack speed with all weapons?

Etc, etc.

Discuss.

All of those are solid. The only one that I think is already in the game is the stealth running. It's Muffled Movement in the stealth tree and I think the Muffle spell does the same thing. There is a dodge/roll but it's at a ridiculously high level on the sneak tree. It should be one of the first perks available but it's not.

P.S. I wanted to agree with whoever said their character feels like a ton of bricks. I don't care about my character doing moves like something out of a 1970s karate flick, but come on; at least make him able to climb over a rock that barely comes up to his waste. "I can slay dragons, but that rock... it's like 3 feet high! How will I ever get past it?"

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:12 am

many cite the ability to leap 30 feet in the air ruins immersion

When playing a Khajiit, I found that being able to jump 30 feet in Oblivion to be very immersive. Have you ever seen a fit house cat jump?

We used to have house cat. He was no longer than two feet from head to the tip of his tail, but he could take a running leap eight feet straight into the air and dig his hind claws firmly enough into a vertical surface (like a wall or a tree trunk) to do a second such jump to reach heights of 16 feet or more without breaking a sweat. It is not beyond the realm of imagination that a six foot tall Khajiit would be able to clear 30 foot jumps with ease

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:20 am

While I don't really mind that Acrobatics is gone, along with the attendant issues of super-fortified jump heights, I do wish we could increase the jump height in Skyrim a bit so that certain obstacles were less annoying. That said, I do see why they didn't implement such things; when the character cannot jump over walls, it makes it easier to prevent the taking of unintended shortcuts.

As I play on a PC, I have access to the command console and can use it to disable clipping; I do so fairly regularly to get into places we're not normally supposed to be able to reach, and from what I've seen those who cannot do this aren't really missing anything. It's like Jaberkaty said: adding the skill is superfluous if the game design does not take it into account, since you can't actually do anything with it.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:45 am

Faster attack speed should be part of a spell, Haste, in the Alteration tree

Makes sense to me, and I agree.

I miss acrobatics, but not the ridiculous bunny jumping you had to do to get good at it. For me, in order to have it back, it would require a change in the whole leveling up system. In theory, the "learn by practice" sounds good, but it has a tendency to play out badly. So I'd prefer a mix of TES and Fallout, combined with something new: You qualify by practice (but you don't get better, and you don't have to do insane amounts), then you assign points at levelup (bed required, rent a room for x days in order to hone skills you choose to level up, and serves as a way to advance time). Then combine this with a new feature of splitting skills up into groups of how you can improve them. Some may advance automatically, some may require trainers and/or study, while some only improve by lots of practice. These are computer times, the added power compared to dice maths could be improved.

It's not complex for the sake of adding complexity, but for the sake of reaching the same "senseness" as complex games that does it to better reflect reality. Complex rules better reflect reality, can't be disputed.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:06 pm

I'll admit. I thought this was going to be another "brin back acrobatiks plz in 6 elswere plszzzzz plz beth plz we mis it it vary yoosful" thread, but this is much better. I'll support this idea.

Also, in Oblivion I could run so fast, I'd always get damaged by jump height from running.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:18 pm

When playing a Khajiit, I found that being able to jump 30 feet in Oblivion to be very immersive. Have you ever seen a fit house cat jump?

We used to have house cat. He was no longer than two feet from head to the tip of his tail, but he could take a running leap eight feet straight into the air and dig his hind claws firmly enough into a vertical surface (like a wall or a tree trunk) to do a second such jump to reach heights of 16 feet or more without breaking a sweat. It is not beyond the realm of imagination that a six foot tall Khajiit would be able to clear 30 foot jumps with ease

I so agree with this.

Characters I RP to be faster and more agile should get faster and more agile. But they simply dont.

Two characters:

A) khajiit (light armor, sneaky, carries very little besides bow+arrows and some potions) usually loaded out like 56/300

B\) orc (heavy armor, brawler, dual axe wielding hoards whatever he finds) runs around like 200/300

Load one save up and jump, OK. Then load the other up and jump... what? The same leaping ability?

What in talos is going on here?

And why shouldn't my cat be able to jump on top of your house? And he should be quicker by a fair margin of tank builds. But he isn't and he never will be.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:23 pm

The Acrobatics skill shouldn't give you the ability to jump like super man. That just breaks immersion as well as the gameplay.

The Acrobatics skill should give us the ability to CLIMB. As you improve your acrobatics skill, trees, buildings, and mountains should become simple stepping stones to your character.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:37 am

What about Athletics and Unarmored?

I personally think that all those should return, and the best way to do that is to merge them into one skill - Unarmored (each level in this skill will increase armor rating by 1 if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet):

Spoiler

Stoneskin - Req: 0/20/40/60/80 Unarmored; Effect: Adds 20/40/60/80/100 armor rating if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.

Speed (gonna need a better name for this one) - Req: 30 Unarmroed & Stoneskin; Effect: Increases attack and cast speed by 20% if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.
Swiftness - Req: 60 Unarmroed & Speed; Effect: Allows to preform a doge roll if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet (still need to think of a proper command for doing it).

Athletics - Req: 50 Unarmored & Stoneskin; Effect: Increases walk, run and sprint speed by 50% if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.
Vitality - Req: 90 Unarmored & Athletics; Effect: Increases health and stamina regeneration by 50% (this perk is NOT disabled by armor).

Acrobatics - Req: 50 Unarmored & Stoneskin; Effect: Increases jumping by 100% (this automatically increases height needed to take damage from falling by 100%) if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.
Arial Attacker - Req: 70 & Acrobatics; Effect: Allows mid-air attacks if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.

Supreme Footwork - Req: 100 Unarmored & Swiftness/Athletics/Acrobatics; Effect: Allows movement while preforming power attacks and all other attacks which disable movement if wearing no armor at all: head, chest, hands, feet.

Also...

Jump while running anyone?

Aren't we already able to do that?

How about enhanced movement speed while blocking?

Isn't there already perk for this in Block?

Faster movement speed when over encumbered?

No... just no.
We are lucky that we can move at all.
No need to increase that speed since having too much stuff will start to lose it's meaning.

Stealth running?

I think we can do that also.

Faster movement speed when Health is below a certain point?

This kinda makes no sense, really.

Edit:
It would also be sweet if there was a Feather spell for Alteration in Skyrim, but that it has a function of Slowfall and Jump spells from previous games (would allow you to jump higher, greatly reduce fall damage and slow down your jump/fall speed a bit - kinda give feel of being in low gravity zone).

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:18 am

Climbing and acrobatics are things that I sorely miss in Skyrim. Love the idea and I think that at least some of it could be modded. Several of the mechanics are in the game but not easily accessible. Probably take a good amount of scripting to pull off.

» Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:49 pm

I'd love to see some combo Acrobatics/Unarmed/Athletics/Unarmored skill.

The thing I can't figure, though, is how that perk tree would ever fit into the symmetrical constellations, where you have 6 skills for each birthsign. I doubt Bethesda would wreck that symmetry and throw a 7th skill into the Thief, e.g.

It's the same thing with the lycanthropy perk tree. Love to see it, but don't know how they'd make it fit.

» Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:09 pm

One of the few thing I enjoyed about Oblivion.