This is unacceptable. Warriors are already overpowered, with this, they'll become unstoppable. How come Bethesda couldn't find this? They need to fix this asap so that I won't no one will abuse this!

I paid $60 for this, least I expect is a perfectly balanced single player RPG so that everyone has an equal chance to compete.

http://i.imgur.com/WuSQB.png

Somebody is obsessed.

Wow.

Why is this such an issue, and if it's such a real issue then why would you spell it out for everyone else how to accomplish it when you're bothered by the fact that people might actually do this?

It takes more effort than just playing the game and enjoying it, but if that's what makes you have fun, then hooray for you?

Good job.

Normally I would argue against "don't do it" people, as I find that argument to be utterly idiotic. I mean why are you supporting a game mechanic that has clear incentive for one choice and none for others? You want real choices, balanced option is the way to go. It's not like having balanced options will prevent you from playing the way you want, if anything, it'll open up the possibilities. It's soooooo dumb to defend broken game mechanics because having it fixed would harm no one and benefit everyone.

But besides that, in this case OP is talking about using a glitch, which is pretty much equivalent to console commands--beyond the scope of the game rules. Self restraint applies here well because there is no practical way that developers can prevent you from breaking the game by simply bypassing the rules, and yet allow modding. Modding is great, and this is like complaining that you can mod the game to give you god like items, hence just don't do it.

Can you just shut up and stop crying, the game is more broken than ''we tought''? Who is we, you and your invisible friends? Seems like forums are a good place to get frustrated over [censored] that don't matter... It's a game it has flaws deal with it. Make space for some interesting posts instead and stop filling the board with [censored] pointles posts, crappy people!

You mean like yours? It's people like you that let the devs get away with doing this nonsense over and over again that can cause these problems in the first place, because they know they'll have their drones and apologists to stand up for them, trumpeting proudly that they can do no wrong.

They know that modders and the CS can fix their broken game for them, and they don't even have to pay us to do it! Nevermind the other people stuck on consoles who have to rely on Bethesda to actually care about their glitches or problems, and fix them without breaking something else completely unrelated.

Even if you can avoid it be self control, it leaves bad after taste. It's like I have managed to avoid this one, which one did I fail to avoid ?

Morrowind had something very similar the exact same thing (except, it was even more accessible), Oblivion had 100% chameleon and other spellcrafting quirks, oh no, how could we possibly enjoyed those titles?

Hey, Tom Riddle split his soul into seven parts, what made him nearly invincible and he became the most dangerous wizard of all times!

Did you ever hear Harry Potter cry about him being overpowered? No!

And he was just a poor child!

This is brilliant to be honest. I'm really glad its there.

Will I use it in normal gameplay? No, its unrealistic to do this in character.

But glitches like this allow you to take some time out and do something silly for a while have a giggle, then go back to playing the game the way its supposed to be played.

Like Morrowind, its not something you intentionally do, and its obvious it would utterly break the game, but its nice knowing its there if you fancy having a bit of a laugh.

Anyone do this yet? I cant make it work. Am I supposed to make a potion after the first fortify restoration potion raises my alchemy? Then make a new potion with my higher alchemy to fortify restoration more? OP said to drink multiple potions beforehand though, but only the first potion I drink increases my skills, the others just refresh the duration.

No, I just don't [censored]in care and I think some exploits are funny. Sometimes I wanna walk around one hitting ancient dragons, but I save before I use those exploits in order to reverse em. Though I do agree in some aspects of your criticism, they should add a grandmaster difficulty for players who don't use exploits but still want to use smithing and enchanting perked out.


This one isn't even beneficial for me, because I don't use it! They should focus on the glitches that actually hurt the gameplay, because there are enough of those, and not some, which can be easily avoided.

An Elder Scrolls game has glitches, flaws, and huge exploit holes in it? Wow, I would never have seen that coming.

Remember spell chaining in Oblivion? Remember alchemy loops in Morrowind? Remember the bug-heap that was Daggerfall? Beth makes some very ambitious, complex games. As a direct result of this, these games have many bugs in it. There are other games out there with fewer bugs. A serious question: why are you playing this one?

Well, I think it's your own right to create potions of ungodly strength, if the game's formulas allow you to.

I have three opinions on this:

My opinions in short:
1. The boosted effects should only be active when the effect of fortify restoration is active and wear off when the fortify restoration effect wears off, in stead of remaining active afterwards.
2. The effects from enchanted items should be governed by the enchanting skill, not the restoration skill.
3. The formulas calculating your boost should be exponentially limited, not linearly or even exponentially growing (which they appear to do now).

Longer, sustained-with-arguments versions:
1. The fact that the fortify restoration potion wears off, but then only the fortify restoration (in your active effects) wears off and not the boosted effects on armor etc. is imo a bug. It's a bug when it wears off, but also when you fortify your restoration skill too (see the video in the first post, you can see that after drinking the fortify restoration potion the active effects do not show boosted, only after re-equipping the enchanted items the effects are boosted). I think this could be solved by a trigger, triggered every time a magical effect is applied and when a magical effects removed on or from the player or an NPC. When triggered, the game should recalculate every single active effect on the player. I think this could be modded quite easily, or be fixed in a (official) patch, but I'm not sure of this since I'm no modder. This should have almost no impact on the game's speed, since it's only a simple calculation (which is very easy for computers even for old ones).

2. I think this boosting of the effects from enchantments should be governed by the enchantment skill and not from the restoration skill. Enchanting an item with an i.e. fortify alchemy enchantment is governed by the enchanting skill and not by the skill in which the effect belongs (i.e. fortify alchemy belongs to the restoration skill). So if you fortify your enchanting skill (and not restoration) you should get the increased effects from armor.

3. I think that a solution to these ungodly fortifying effects described in the first post can be solved completely by changing the formulas the game uses (I have no idea if it's possible to mod these formulas). What I mean is the following: right now the case is as described above, there's no limit or cap. This is not natural and due to flaws in the formulas used by the game. In the real world, i.e. scientific effects can be boosted (i.e. speeding up a certain chemical reaction by adding heat), but only to a limit. This limit gets harder and harder to reach when you push the boosting factor further and further. In terms of Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls: if you want to fortify your restoration skill by 50% with a potion, you should be strong with alchemy (not considering any boosts from perks). If you want to fortify your restoration skill by 100%, you should not simply be twice as strong in alchemy, but much, much more. What I mean is that the formulas that the game uses should be made as such that the upper limit gets harder and harder to reach and not that the effects are linear. They appear to be linear or even exponentially growing, which creates the unnatural ungodly powerful effects. A solution like this is not hard if you know a bit of math: exponentially limited growth is easily formulated, see this for a basic graph showing what I mean: http://blog.nerdbucket.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dimret-expdec-graph2.jpg). I know that people will say: but I don't want an upper limit! I.e.: the max fortify restoration boost you can create with potions is 100%. Well, maybe that mathematical upper limit could be boosted too (mathematically not hard too, just an extension to the formulas). What I mean in terms of Skyrim: if the normal limit of the fortify restoration effect through alchemy is a 100%, then you could fortify your alchemy skill before creating a potion to increase the upper limit. This upper limit should then also be harder and harder to boost when fortifying your alchemy skill, but then again: how would you boost your alchemy skill so much, if the fortify effects are capped mathematically to a maximum that you cant increase in the first place!

If you read all through this: I'm sorry for all the confusing math etc. I hope you agree in some way, or have even better ideas!

Let's play some Skyrim now and think of eating us some dragon souls to forget all this headache-giving math talk.

And I totally agree with you! But it would be nice if these problems were addressed in every new game, so the series would get better and better in detail, which means a lot if you know how much detail there's in these games. I know that people only see the big thing like the dual wielding, horseback riding, better graphics and these things are important, but the details should never be forgotten!

It would be like trying to cook a perfect meal without giving any attentions to details like spices and salt etc.: you could end up with a meal composed of great ingredients without the taste coming out the way it could have come out!

Seems like a pain getting both Alchemy and Enchanting to 100, and then in the end, although your skills are ridiculously high, they're only high through the fortify effect so you can't put perks into them any way?

I have no idea. Either way some of you guys need to seriously calm down, don't quite see how this could ruin the game for anyone unless you intentionally exploit it after following the video guide to the letter, which'd surely be your fault.

This doesn't seem to work with PC version, anyone was able to produce it PC or xbox?

Edit: It seems the first Fortify Restoration potion does effect gear stats and potion stats, but, drinking another fortify restoration potion won't overwrite the current effect, even though it does show increased effect on menu.

Basically steps are:

Wear your Enchant Alchemy gear set

Create and drink Fortify Restoration potion
Unequip and re-equip Enchant Alchemy gear set
Create another Fortify Restoration potion and drink it
Unquip and re-equip Enchant Alchemy gear set

Repeat as long as you want.

Key is, creating another potion after you updated your enchanted gear stats by re-equiping them. Otherwise it won't work, drinking the same potion won't make it stack, it has to be a new potion.

For anyone who's curious about my character skills, I had enchanting at 35 (leveled by disenchanting) and alchemy at 25 (health potions), used grand soul gem and 3 created 17% items. After 15 or so potions, stats sky-rocketed and showed up as %850+. It starts slow but after while it goes out of control.

Edit 2: Haven't tried it with the new patch.

I was playing in the park with some friends. The usual chaperones were there, people were watching us, and we were having fun in a more or less approved fashion. Then I noticed a path -- well, more of a small break in the fence, really. I picked and picked at this break in the fence, until I was able to squirm through and get to the trees on the other end. I ran through the forest for a while, well beyond where the chaperones intended for us to go, and eventually tripped and broke my ankle.

Your argument is that the playground is not safe. We're saying that the playground is safe. The forest might not be safe, but no one ever said that it was. There have always been combinations like this in The Elder Scrolls games (well, since Morrowind) since there's no such thing as a QA team big enough to match what you crazy min/maxers will do. They could give a thousand people three months to play this game and exploits would still be found once the game hit the wild due to the sheer amount of man-hours being thrown at it.

You can do that by hitting "~" on the PC version.

What's your point? TES enables you to cheat and exploit if you decide to.

I'm all about Beth keeping normal enchanting balanced but this goes way beyond that. Just don't do it.

This game can be broken: True
It's you who breaks it.
[/quote]

not entirely true the only reoson im here is because im level 81 and therefore use all my skills so i had some resto potions on me accidently drank some before upgrading my new armour ........ wtf
long story short concerned for my save file because the vikki and vance glitch messed up my save on new vegas

I watched a video where a guy spent like half an hour jumping onto a roof, falling through a wall, running all the way around the city, and going through a hole on an invisible plane to get under Skyforge and loot the merchant's chest. Just watching it made me think, I don't care if that merchant has a +1000 sword of smiting...who's going to go through that?

To me, a problem exploit would be like the FFVI one where the effect remained with the armor off and then exponentially multiplied. Any casual player could wear that, remove it, and get "free" stats without trying to. But some of these, it seems like you have to be looking for them. So...not really problems, IMHO.

Even if it's pretty hard to stumble upon, it's now common knowledge. Sounds like a pretty bad exploit and should be addressed.
My personal favourite is a revamp of stacking. Each time a percentage call is made, sort the effect list (highest to lowest) and apply exponential limiting before adding it up. So: 100% of first effect, 50% of second effect, 25% of third effect, 12.5% of forth effect and so on. Result, nothing can add up to more than twice the best effect, most of the time meaning it's probably better to take something you'd have better gain from than stacking. Some vanilla effects might even have to be brought up a tad to compensate.

In every TES game there is some exploit that if you try hard enough you can make your character a god.

Morrowind: enchanting & alchemy. Alchemy was insane, but turning a ring into a fireball uzi with 400 rounds of ammunition was also insane.. especially when you had 2 of each element.
Oblivion: weakness to magic + whatever it was you wanted. You want 10000 acrobatics so you can fly, go right ahead. Well until the patches took it away, which was sad. Sure you could abuse it, but you could also have some fun with it, anyone ever make a spell that raised acrobatics on a horse by 10,000 ?

Skryim: enchant + alchemy all over again.

If you want to exploit it then do so. If you don't, don't. I always exploit them just to have some fun... like making a flying horse. But I do it on its own save file so I can go back to playing the game how I want.

I actually think they are here on PURPOSE. Anyone who played Morrowind as long as I knows that Vivec was not really a god. He made himself super powerful with enchantments and magic, Dagoth did the same. I always figured when you found those crazy exploits you were uncovering the same things they did... or maybe what the dwemer did before they vanished. I actually tried hitting the heart of lorkan with Keening and Sunder in different patterns trying to see if it did anything... it did not .

In a way it is like Vivec and the dwemer. You can take advantage of exploits and make yourself a god. You can also go the way of the dwemer and take advantage of it to the point that you might as well not even exist(cause it is no fun to play).

And in other games? Games tend to be balanced, I really don't see TES as something that deserves to be special.

You forgot Daggerfall: Throw cheap fireballs into the wall and then absorb their magicka. Wonder why that was taken away?

I never did this, nor should it even be allowed. If it was taken out, doesn't that suggest the team going for balance?

I only did smithing, and I feel overpowered. Not even trying to grind for the sake of grinding, but to make some money to buy skills I felt didn't progress as fast as they I'd like (being an archer I had a really hard time leveling my armor skill). I feel I used the game the way it should be used. And yet now I have to restart after 250 hours become the game is just utter boring with no challenge left in it. And all I've done, mostly, is explore the top side. With the new character, I'm starting questing right away. Which is sad, because I really wanted to wait for some additional hardcoe oriented mods.

As I said, I didn't even know I was exploiting anything, I was just playing the game (although postponing questing). I'm basically forced to not play the game if I want the challenge to last beyond lvl 30-40, which to me happens waaaaaaaay too fast. I restarted yesterday, and I'm already level 11 only after a "few" hours of play. It should have taken me a week or so, or rather, the slowing down of progress doesn't happen fast enough.

Yeah, evidently by the fact they are removed via patches and/or not included in the next game, once we begin complaining about stuff that are broken. Such as 100% chameleon (and thank the nine for that).

The biggest problem is that it is too easy to get "everything" (that matters anyway). For the non combat, crafting, (and magic?) perks, you don't really feel that you need them to get by. You don't go "oh dammit, I wish I put some perks into that". Lockpicking feels useless, as I'm always in surplus of picks. Money is not an issue, and skill alone seems to work nicely for persuations etc (on my character anyway).

If some/all of those "useless" skills mattered more, we would hurt more from it. Even arbitrary game mechanics to make these matter more, would be welcomed. Everyone complains about taxes and how hard it is to get by in this region, somehow we can't find enough things to spend money on. How about those daedric artifacts, why are those always available to all characters? As long as you can survive the fight, you get it. Why isn't the chest needed to complete one of these so damned hard to open we don't stand a chance doing it without a huge amount of picks, unless of course we had some high level perks to make it easy? Because then I guess it's "tedious". Heaven forbid a role playing game was that. We complained about bad directions being given in Morrowind. Instead of giving us better directions, they completely removed it and gave us magic pointers instead. Hail "progress"

Confirmed with PC, v1.3 last night. Spent about 10-15 minutes playing around and only by creating potions of different magnitudes (by altering Alchemy with equipping/unequipping items), could I get the effects to stack. Still possible though, but it's just more work now ^.^

And on an aside, I don't think many people will read our two posts. They're much happier to rant and rave about exploits.