:blink:

Just had a look at the meshes; there are more shapes than I expected, but there's nothing to worry about.

And for everyone else who doesn't know: niftoaster is the PyFFI script that optimizes your meshes.

Hmm, well, I've got a few nitpicking spelling/naming bits to follow, so please bear with me, I hope you don't mind them. From Better Cities Resources.esm.

BANBravilContainerBakeCardamom "Cinnamon" [CONT:010016E9]: contains cardamom, has a cardamom EditorID, but is named... "Cinnamon"?
BANChorrolContainerBakeLavander "Lavander" [CONT:010016EB]: It's spelt Lavender
BANBravilContainerStationarybox "Stationary Box" [CONT:010033B0]: Stationary means staying still, I think you want Stationery, which means writing materials.

It's not exactly game-breaking stuff, you'll notice, but it'll help make things that little bit more perfect. :icecream:

Thanks, as always,

Vac

Thanks, all three are now corrected

Shiny! :intergalactic:

Vac

About the mesh corrections and optimization I'm doing...

I need to know a few things...Well maybe quite a few things LOL, but I'll just hammer you with the simple one first.

1. Is all the architecture in the market district pretty much permanent? Ex: you're not planning on moving/adding anything in the near future.

I am working the ic main folder currently and have made a good dent in it.

Specifically, here is one example

VanillaNifFromVanillaBSA ICInnerWall01.nif= 1.32 MB *not the same as your Nif*
Your ICInnerWall01.nif= 1.10 MB
My/Your corrected/optimized ICInnerWall01.nif= 968ish kb
*SpecificNewWIPz* ICInnerWall01MarketDist.nif= currently 660ish kb with BYFFI and still going. (Yes, BYFFI :rofl: Blendy+PYFFI)

When I get a little further I will post some pics asking/describing what else may or may not be needed in them. It would be easier to explain with pics, anyhow.


=====
Also, there are three obelisks above a roof in the 2ndfloormarket dist that can be seen from the top of the stairs. Do these really need to be there. After all, that's just more collision+plus it looks goofy.
If these are not needed, please remove these 3. There are plenty in Green Emperor Way.

Metallicow

Hi,
I thank you for this great mod.
I got crash on exit problem when run Better Cities with The Lost Spires, Unique Landscapes - Beaches of Cyrodiil - Lost Coast, Unique Landscapes - Cheydinhal Falls( Already install Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp). I changed the load order, turn off others mods but it still crash. Windom Earle_s Oblivion Crash Prevention System doesn't solve the problem, all my change in game like audio, video... still gone after exit. I saw The Lost Spires is on the compatibility list, so if the problem is because of fault or something else, please ignore this post. Thank you.

PS: Thieves Arsenal, Midas Magic Spells of Aurum and Let the People Drink also cause Crash on exit but problem solved when I load it after Better Cities esps.

Here is all my mod load order by BOSS:

Oblivion.esm  . Note:  Masterlist Information: $Revision: 675 $, $Date: 2010-02-19 14:17:05 -0800 (Fri, 19 Feb 2010) $, $LastChangedBy: pacificmorrowind $All Natural Base.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Invent,Scripts,Stats,Relations}}Kvatch Rebuilt.esmBetter Cities Resources.esmbookplacing.esmHorseCombatMaster.esmUnnecessaryViolence.esmUnofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  . Note:  Recommend installing UOP hotfix for additional fixes: [src="http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1067818-relzbananasplits-better-cities/http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710"]http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27710[/url]  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Climate,C.Light,C.Owner,Delev,Invent,Names,Relev,Scripts,Stats,Relations}} and remove the C.Water tag (only exist in older version).UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.espOblivion Citadel Door Fix.espDLCShiveringIsles.espUnofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  . Note:  Remember to use the 'MOBS' version when using Francesco's and FCOM.  . Note:  Newest MOBS and non-MOBS versions have the same name.  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Light,C.Owner,Invent,Names,Relations,Stats,Delev}}Better Cities .esp  . Note:  Dummy file to load Better Cities .BSANatural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.espAll Natural - Real Lights.esp  . Note:  Do not use with original Real Lights mod.All Natural.esp  . Note:  Required for All Natural.  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Climate}}All Natural - SI.esp  . Note:  Required for All Natural SI support.  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Climate}}All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  . Note:  Only use one All Natural weather plugin.Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.espBetter_Water-1830.espMIS.espMIS New Sounds Optional Part.espPCSoundNalia.espRainbows.espWindowLightingSystem.espAkatosh Mount By Saiden Storm.espBook Jackets Oblivion.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics}} and deactivate.Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics}} and deactivate.ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp  . Note:  For use with Better Cities use 'ClocksOfCyrodiilBC.esp' or 'ClocksOfCyrodiilOBC.esp' or 'ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp'ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp  . Note:  Deactivate CLocksOfCyrodiil.esppersonality_idles4.esppersonality_idles4_nopc.espHarvest[Containers].esp  . Note:  Not OOO compatible. Included in OOO.Harvest[Containers] - Player Home Add-on.esp  . Note:  Not OOO compatible. Included in OOO.Living Economy.esp  . Note:  Don't use 'Living Economy' and 'Living Economy - SI' together. Pick one.Living Economy - Items.espCutthroat Merchants.espsr_super_hotkeys.esp  . Note:  Don't use hotkeys to change Warcry-style 'set' equipment. Game bug.DLCHorseArmor.espDLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.espDLCOrrery.espDLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.espDLCVileLair.espDLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.espDLCMehrunesRazor.espDLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.espDLCSpellTomes.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Relev}}DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  . Note:  Not compatible with 'CDM-CGO Compatibility plugins'.KDCirclets.esp  . Note:  Avoid using Potion Belt and KD Circlets at the same time. Character can wear belt or circlet, not both.Lich King's Helm v1_0.espNew Frostmourne Sword by Jojjo v1_0.espTyrael Armor.espThieves Arsenal.esp  . Note:  Requires OBSE.Slof's Horses Base.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics}}Slof's Extra Horses.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Graphics}}DLCThievesDen.espDLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.espDLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Delev,Invent,Names,Relations,Relev,Stats,Scripts}}OOO-Water_Weeds.espOOO-WaterFish.espKvatch Rebuilt.espKvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.espLetThePeopleDrink.espRomuska Fantasy Store.espTona's_ModsStore.espApachii_Goddess_Store.espDLCBattlehornCastle.espDLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.espDLCFrostcrag.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Owner}}Kvatch Rebuilt_Frostcrag Reborn.espDLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  . Note:  Possible conflict with Frostcrag Reborn. Do not use both or land tearing will occur.Knights.espKnights - Unofficial Patch.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:C.Light,Invent,Names,Relev,Stats}}The Lost Spires.espLost Paladins of the Divines.espxuldarkforest.espLostSpires-DarkForest patch.espxulStendarrValley.espxulTheHeath.espXulEntiusGorge.espxulFallenLeafEverglade.espLostSpires-Everglade patch.espxulColovianHighlands_EV.espxulChorrolHinterland.espxulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  . Note:  Make sure version is 1.6.3 or later.xulbravilbarrowfields.espxulLushWoodlands.espxulAncientYews.espxulAncientRedwoods.espxulCloudtopMountains.espxulArriusCreek.espxulPatch_AY_AC.espxulRollingHills_EV.espxulPantherRiver.espxulRiverEthe.espxulBrenaRiverRavine.espxulImperialIsle.espxulBlackwoodForest.espxulCheydinhalFalls.espKvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.espxulAspenWood.espHarvest [Flora].espHarvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.espHarvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.espHarvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.espBag of Holding.espP1DkeyChain.espATakesAll.espUV Vanilla Quest Fixes.espQuest Award Leveller.espQuest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.espQuest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.espQuest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.espQuest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.espRealisticForceLow.espRealisticForceMedium.espRealisticForceHigh.espSpellSinger.espMidasSpells.espMidas OscuroGems.espMidas Betterholy.espMidas Reduced Costs Half.esp  . Note:  Use only one Reduced Costs module at a timeMidas PowDur3x.esp  . Note:  Use only one PowDur modifier at a time. Load after midasspells.espMidas Eldrich Power 5x.esp  . Note:  Use only one Eldrich Power modifier at a time. Load after PowDur modifiers.RenGuardOverhaul.espRenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.espDeadly Reflex 5 - Timed block and 150% damage.esp  . Note:  Use no more than one Timed Block ESP.Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block and 250% damage.esp  . Note:  Use no more than one Timed Block ESP.Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block with no damage or durability changes.esp  . Note:  Use no more than one Timed Block ESP.DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp  . Note:  See [src="http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1067818-relzbananasplits-better-cities/http://omploader.org/vMmJlbA/DRtestfix.zip"]http://omploader.org/vMmJlbA/DRtestfix.zip[/url] for a hotfix for CTD issues.Level_Rates_Modified_x2.espSW01.esp  . Note: Use 'SW01.esp' or 'SW01Plus.esp' but not both at the same time. SW01Plus affects the player as well.SW01Minus.esp_Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:NpcFaces,Hair,Eyes,Graphics}}Better Cities - Full City Defences.espBetter Cities Full.espBetter Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.espBetter Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.espBetter Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.espBetter Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.espBetter Imperial City.espBetter Imperial City FPS Patch.esp  . Note:  Only use if using Better Imperial City.espBetter Cities Full FPS Patch.espOOO-Respawn_Week.espUnnecessaryViolence.espAll Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  . Bashed Patch tag suggestion:  {{BASH:Filter,C.Climate}}  . Note:  Do not activate. Must be merged into Bashed Patch using Import Cells.Bashed Patch, 0.espStreamline 3.1.esp

If you don't crash on exit, you aren't using enough mods...

If you do, then use FastExit2 to fix it.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16513

This is one fast update because I wont be here for a month to upload the mod.

Vorians cleaned the rest of the cities of the redundant cells and cells Better Cities shouldn't edit. While in this process he decided to remove the VWD items of the IC and put them in an additional/optional plugin. This lead to edition of the FPS plugins (as they remove the VWD items of the IC) and to the removal of 2 of them which only had this kind of data in them.

The spelling errors noticed by Vacuity also have been fixed.

@Metallicow: The resources we use are most definitely likely to stay in. I wasn't sure you were still working on them though but it's good to know you still are Like I said I wont be here for 1 month but I'll check them out when I'll be back or you can always ask Vorians if you need anything of course.

Thanks for the update, and whatever you're doing for the next month, I hope you enjoy doing it. :icecream:

Vac

Thanks for the new release, have nice "vacation" :wave:

Umm... Yeah. I'm downloading the new resourcesBSAs and files now. Figured you would wait until 4.5.2 for that, but whatever. Is there anything specific I should know about the new VWD meshes esp?

I didn't change anything from the previous version (4.5.0) but changing the name so no one would ask if the resources were out of date or no yet uploaded.
We didn't change any meshes but those you improved last time.
The VWD stuff that was moved is just an esp thing, nothing to do with the meshes themselves (which thus stay the exact same).

How did I created the LOD meshes though was with one program that did it automatically (it is not available anymore though I think). So they are not wonderful job of precision but just some automated work...

1) I doubt we'll be making any more changes architecturally to the Market District, unless someone produces meshes that actually fit together neatly instead of fitting together the best way I could get them to fit together.

2) There's no question 2! I don't know how to answer this one.


=====
If you take a peek under those obelisks, you'll find that they're covering an ugly spot of open-sided meshness. The collision could be removed, they could be reshaped like Mickey Mouse to look less Goofy, or if the ugliness could be smoothed over they could be removed. The ones in Green Emperor Way on the other hand aren't doing anything special, so I could remove three from there to compensate!

About v4.5.0 and new resources, we didn't know you were still looking at the meshes, it's great that you are! The only thing the new IC VWD ESP actually does is place trees and buildings in the Tamriel worldspace within the IC city walls. It does nothing else. And everything it places is a duplicate of placed objects in the separate IC District worldspaces, so it's an attempt to match the appearance of each District from outside the city walls (for those who like to fly around on dragons or look down from mountain tops). This all used to be in the main IC ESPs but since a lot of people suffered massive FPS drops when viewing the IC from afar, I chose to remove this completely from the main files and make it an optional extra.

I think I'll peak... Just a little. hopefully I won't be horrified or petrified or turned to stone.

Anyway, basically what you are saying if I understand you correctly, is that you did not change the Better Imperial City.esp, right?
Inside the walls, which would be the Tamriel2 worldspace, right?

Basically you shouldn't see any changes in the IC at all. it is only when you are far away from the IC and look at it that it could change (if you generate your LOD) and are or not using the special esp with the VWD items in it.

Nothing has been changed in the IC District worldspaces, which is where all the real modding took place in BC IC, for v4.5.0+. The Tamriel2 worldspace is irrelevant except to provide new land height, the objects placed in that worldspace are of no importance.

No new meshes have been added, no old meshes have been removed I think that might be what you're really asking?

I am curious as to the program you are using and if I could possibly get a copy?
It does indeed do a fine job with the file size, although it totally wreaked the UV mappings. This is probably because it changed them/some/all(?) to quads instead of leaving some as tri's as they should have been left alone in the first place.
I have run a few thru PYFFI and it further reduced the size of some. If BYFFI'd the right way in a certain order, I would take a guess that some could be reduced even further possibly as small as a couple kb. Hmmmm.... now that would be taking performance to the max....

Other thoughts: I have ran a couple of Arthmoor's _far meshes through my BYFFI process for testing purposes and have proved that meshes can be reduced even further. And have compared 8 different meshes from VanillaBSA thru RAEVWD with various different BYFFI steps/process. I am not sure exactly how he does his _far meshes, but I would lay a guess it probably doesn't involve blender, which requires PYFFI anyhow. Maybe he uses a automated program also? Would be nice to know.


Yes, yes, pretty much. sort of.

Hi!

As always I greatly enjoy visiting cyrodiils most beautiful cities.

Today I tested the compatibility of some mods and i found a small glitch with Lera and Pizz Hiyoko Store.
There are two boats outside the store that are conflicting with the surrounding:

http://www.imagebanana.com/view/m38ohsrk/BetterCheydinhalHyoko1.jpg
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/5mc2bmu3/BetterCheydinhalHyoko2.jpg

Only Better Cities 4.5.1 and Hyoko 1.45 have been used.

I tried to change Load order but that doesn't help.

Thanks for your hard work!!

If you're talking about _far meshes, Ismelda might have used GenerateFar which is no longer available to the public, unless it's been re-released in the last two years. Ismelda can you confirm, is this the program you were talking about? I still have the program somewhere...




Yes we know Open the console and disable the boats or the logs.

Yes it is that one.

I'm joining this party a bit late. What's this BYFFI process you're talking about? Since it involves Blender, does it require any special knowledge in order to use it?

When I make a _far.nif, this is the process I use:

* Remove collision from the original in nifskope.
* Export the mesh as a .OBJ file.
* Import the .OBJ file into Milkshape 3D.
* Use Milkshape 3D's "directx tools" menu to bring up the mesh reduction tool.
* Adjust the slider on the triangle count until the mesh quality begins to degrade.
* Export the results back out into a .OBJ file.
* Import the .OBJ file back into nifskope.
* Check it for deformed bits, if things look bad, repeat the work in Milkshape with a lesser amount of triangle reduction.
* Apply low-res textures.
* Save the file, optimize it with PYFFI.

It's a really tedious process, but it has so far served the purpose well enough. Some of the architecture meshes ended up with UV problems but I don't know how to fix those. Most of the problems aren't visible though so it doesn't really matter.

Just to be sure:

When running TES4LodGen after installing Better Cities (with IC VWD Option) I got following two problems:

1. The Skingrad Castle seems not correct (Anvil and all other cities are correct)

Skingrad: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/i0hfk6ca/SkingradCastle.jpg


2. The IC looks strange. There is some architecture but not all (Arena). Is this only the added content from Better Cities?

IC: http://www.imagebanana.com/view/yqer0wsa/IC.jpg



One last general question?

Running TES4Lodgen with Better Cities does not provide VWD Houses in Cities. Is this correct. The content can only be seen when near (skingrad bridge).

So I conclude that installing RAEVWD 1.7 in conjunction with Better Cities I got everything (low FPS inclusive ). Right?


Thanks again for this wonderful mod!

Hey, that IC screenshot looks like a theme park ride!

I have no clue what is happening for you with Skingrad Castle. I do not believe it is related to BC, but I'll take a look anyway. For the IC - we only place the objects which will allow TES4LODGen to make the VWD, we don't provide the _far meshes required for them to actually appear. So yes, you also need RAEVWD installed too.

Yup, that's normal in Skingrad! The castle does not appear VWD in the vanilla game. You'll need to get the meshes from elsewhere, most likely RAEVWD once again.