[Relz]Bananasplit's Better Cities : IV - Oblivion

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:27 pm

A quick question on the effects of console disabling things added by BBC.

Great mod, love it, I have the conplete version. Unfortunately I don't like the look of the Arcane University. I had considered a complete reinstall of all the separate components of the mod, with the exception of the AU, bit then I got lazy.

I noticed that the changes to the AU grounds seemed to be mostly additions to the vanilla stuff rather than alterations, so I did a lot of clicking and disabling via console. I have only done the 'open' bit of the grounds because I'm not yet an AU member, but I disabled the floating bricks on top of the pillars, the pillars themselves, the Ayleid screens, the Welkind Clusters round the door to the Archmage's lobby, the arch around that door, the mystical glow above the two wells. Also the 'portico' structure just inside the entrance to the university grounds and the light suspended from it. Also the fire breathing dragon (and its fire)

I haven't touched any of the plants. In my opinion everything looks much better (more austere) now.

Am I likely to have broken something, I've noticed no problems with my game, but I do have multiple save games from berfore my disabling frenzy to fall back on if necessary?

Final question. Are the disabled objects really gone, so that I should start noticing a graphical boost, or are they still there in some way affecting GPU performance.

Depending on the answers I may get cracking on the interior half of the AU grounds and try to make it look more like the vanilla AU.

All you've done is remove the object from the game, as long as it's not needed for anything then you'll be fine. I removed duplicate doors myself, and since they weren't necessary there were no problems.

You're basically using the console to do something you could've done in the CS, except it only applies to your current save.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:59 pm

v1.22 was fully compatible with Better Cities, there is no patch for that version. Unless later versions of TIE have repositioned the secret entrances placed especially for Better Cities in the TIE ESP (they shouldn't have been moved, but who knows? Since Ismelda placed them for him, we haven't had any further contact with Veritas Secreto) then compatibility still remains fine with no need of a patch.

BCC TEAM

Do not worry about has it states this in TIE readme - Arthmoor Fix..

Arthmoor has pulled it off again - giving us OpenCities and Better Cities compatibility. I'm
going to have to try those mods out myself. I've heard so many great things about them.

So they should not need the patch from Above, has TIE 1.26 has the compatiblity built into it now, if I am reading that right and looking at the script etc right..

Arthmoor would know for sure..

has for tie4mods it should work the same has well, since all the worldspaces, cells changes, new npc placement, secert entrances, are the same..

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:41 am

BCC TEAM

Do not worry about has it states this in TIE readme - Arthmoor Fix..

So they should not need the patch from Above, has TIE 1.26 has the compatiblity built into it now, if I am reading that right and looking at the script etc right..

Arthmoor would know for sure..

has for tie4mods it should work the same has well, since all the worldspaces, cells changes, new npc placement, secert entrances, are the same..

You're losing me completely here. There has never BEEN a patch for Better Cities and TIE, EVER. Veritas Secreto allowed Ismelda to edit the TIE ESP directly, to ensure that all secret city entrances in TIE had Better Cities variants as well. She designed it so that the original TIE secret entrances (for vanilla game) could be toggled off, and the Better Cities variants could be toggled on. Veritas then allowed Arthmoor to step in and do the same for Open Cities, creating another variant set of secret entrances which could be toggled on for Open Cities. I believe Ismelda also did some for Open Better Cities, but that might have been me, I can't remember now - this was over a year ago

This was all in version 1.22 I believe. Since then we haven't had any contact with Veritas so have no clue whether the changes Ismelda and I made in TIE are still as we created them or not. If they haven't been changed, then there is still no need for a patch, but if they have been changed then there might now be need of a patch.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:38 pm

You probably haven't broken anything, but I can only say "probably", since I don't know what you've disabled

If you didn't disable any doors, gates, NPCs or containers, then I doubt anything is broken. Supposedly, just disabling an object in place can give an FPS boost. I've never seen this myself when disabling things, but this is what others claim, so it may be true.

You would do better to revert to a previous save and either:
1) Use TES4Gecko to merge just the BC IC Districts you actually want into a single ESP
2) Open the BC IC ESP in the CS, go to the IC AU worldspace and delete from there the things you don't like

Thank you for the response Vorians. I can confirn that no doors, gates, NPCs or containers were hurt in the making of my Arcane University.

I confess that I started reading the documentation for TES4Gecko, got scared and ran away. Your second suggestion sounds like it's within my range of abilities. I'll do that.

Cheers.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:54 am

Since then we haven't had any contact with Veritas so have no clue whether the changes Ismelda and I made in TIE are still as we created them or not. If they haven't been changed, then there is still no need for a patch, but if they have been changed then there might now be need of a patch.

There's no need to worry. Those bits that got moved I took care of making sure still worked right. So there's no need for any patches to fix things because nothing is broken. Or shouldn't be. If it is, then now's the time to speak up in excruciating detail since there's a fix needed in Leyawiin for the Open Cities part and I've got the ESP for the moment.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 am

I am Downloading the current version now to update from version 4.0.0 and resources 4.0.2.
Do I just disable the old one in OBMM and activate the new one? Or is there something else I also need to do?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:48 pm

So is BC considered a complete finished mod now (minus the fix for Leyawiin for Open Cities)?

I used a older version of BC and enjoyed it, and would like to come back to it if its complete. I get tired of having to keep up with updated files/patches, like ooo, mmm, those two alone is a chore.

:)

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:58 pm

I am Downloading the current version now to update from version 4.0.0 and resources 4.0.2.
Do I just disable the old one in OBMM and activate the new one? Or is there something else I also need to do?

You need to have three OMODs active: The main archive containing the ESM and ESPs; the resources archive; the resources update. So disable the first and last, but leave the resources archive OMOD active. Then activate the updates.

So is BC considered a complete finished mod now (minus the fix for Leyawiin for Open Cities)?

I used a older version of BC and enjoyed it, and would like to come back to it if its complete. I get tired of having to keep up with updated files/patches, like ooo, mmm, those two alone is a chore.

:)

No, it is not a complete finished mod now, we have more to add. Arthmoor was referring to TIE needing a fix for Leyawiin for Open Cities, not Better Cities (Arthmoor isn't part of the BC team, he's working on Open Cities).

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:40 pm

Have you fixed the problem about stuff falling through the floor mesh(s) yet?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/BBCICupperMeshproblem.jpg
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/FindingACollisionProblemWithBlender.png

Just checking.

You know I wouldn't let you get away without putting up the previously mentioned sign. LOL.

I haven't looked at the mesh personally, but the normals are probably flipped, hence why "live" objects can still pass over them without falling through.

Metallicow

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:38 am

No, it is not a complete finished mod now, we have more to add. Arthmoor was referring to TIE needing a fix for Leyawiin for Open Cities, not Better Cities (Arthmoor isn't part of the BC team, he's working on Open Cities).

Ah ok Thank you

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:56 pm

Have you fixed the problem about stuff falling through the floor mesh(s) yet?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/BBCICupperMeshproblem.jpg
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/FindingACollisionProblemWithBlender.png

Just checking.

You know I wouldn't let you get away without putting up the previously mentioned sign. LOL.

I haven't looked at the mesh personally, but the normals are probably flipped, hence why "live" objects can still pass over them without falling through.

Metallicow

Thank for the pointer but neither Vorians or I are blender efficient... We always relied on external help (as we can't get a mesher for hire for BBC) to do our meshes work. Now those meshes are vanilla ones to which we added an underside so it wouldn't look empty. So if anyone might want to check those meshes for us and fix them we would be eternally grateful and add your name on the prestigious list of credit! If that is not a high price I don't know what is

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:40 am

Have you fixed the problem about stuff falling through the floor mesh(s) yet?

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/BBCICupperMeshproblem.jpg
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/FindingACollisionProblemWithBlender.png

Just checking.

You know I wouldn't let you get away without putting up the previously mentioned sign. LOL.

I haven't looked at the mesh personally, but the normals are probably flipped, hence why "live" objects can still pass over them without falling through.

Metallicow

I wish I'd learnt Greek in school, then I'd understand what all this means.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:29 pm

Thank for the pointer but neither Vorians or I are blender efficient... We always relied on external help (as we can't get a mesher for hire for BBC) to do our meshes work. Now those meshes are vanilla ones to which we added an underside so it wouldn't look empty. So if anyone might want to check those meshes for us and fix them we would be eternally grateful and add your name on the prestigious list of credit! If that is not a high price I don't know what is

Well why didn't you say so in the first place.

That's probably why lots of people have FPS issues in some of the cities. Especially in the market dist. The meshes haven't been optimised and checked.

I will redo the collision on the BANICBalcony.nif. I guess I will try to make it lower poly also. Where/How would you like it sent when I get done with it?

I bet you tried to pull a fast one in nifscope to make the mesh, huh?....Not exactly the correct way to do it. If one does that, the collision still needs checked or redone in a modeling program.

Metallicow

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:30 am

Well why didn't you say so in the first place.

That's probably why lots of people have FPS issues in some of the cities. Especially in the market dist. The meshes haven't been optimised and checked.

I will redo the collision on the BANICBalcony.nif. I guess I will try to make it lower poly also. Where/How would you like it sent when I get done with it?

I bet you tried to pull a fast one in nifscope to make the mesh, huh?....Not exactly the correct way to do it. If one does that, the collision still needs checked or redone in a modeling program.

Metallicow

Yes that is how we did it mostly. The best option is for you to PM me with a link to some file host when you're done. Mediafire, Sendspace or something you have habit with (if any).

I thought it was abundantly clear that we didn't do meshes ourselves as the long list of credit proves it. I guess we did a fine job as hiding our handicap then

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:48 pm

The best option is for you to PM me with a link to some file host when you're done. Mediafire, Sendspace or something you have habit with (if any).

Your PM has been sent.

EDIT:
BANICBalconyFIXEDCollision.nif in the BANICFIXEDCollisionV2.7z archive
49.9kb down to 46.8kb with collision on both sides. This is out of 60ish kb total possible
Pyffiing the mesh in the download will only add file size, so don't bother, I checked it in-game.
Also your _far.nif of the same name has ugly UVmapping. It will need to be remade from the mesh in the download.

I notice some of the other meshes you have in that folder use or used something similar for the base walkway.
banicbalconycollonade.nif
banicbalconycollonadewalled01.nif
""Balcony whatever.
""etc

You should make a test esp and check the collision on the *balcony* nifs looking for obvious fall-throughs/shoot arrow up at the bottoms also. Making sure the collision works on both sides. This may not be necessary for some of them, If it is obvious they can't/wont be flipped upside-down in the CS and placed/walked upon.
You/whoever may have flipped the one made initially to make the others, which if that is the case, then other meshes might/probably have the same problem: screwed-up collision or only collision on one side.

Hope this helps.

Metallicow

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:51 am

Your PM has been sent.

EDIT:
BANICBalconyFIXEDCollision.nif in the BANICFIXEDCollisionV2.7z archive
49.9kb down to 46.8kb with collision on both sides. This is out of 60ish kb total possible
Pyffiing the mesh in the download will only add file size, so don't bother, I checked it in-game.
Also your _far.nif of the same name has ugly UVmapping. It will need to be remade from the mesh in the download.

I notice some of the other meshes you have in that folder use or used something similar for the base walkway.
banicbalconycollonade.nif
banicbalconycollonadewalled01.nif
""Balcony whatever.
""etc

You should make a test esp and check the collision on the *balcony* nifs looking for obvious fall-throughs/shoot arrow up at the bottoms also. Making sure the collision works on both sides. This may not be necessary for some of them, If it is obvious they can't/wont be flipped upside-down in the CS and placed/walked upon.
You/whoever may have flipped the one made initially to make the others, which if that is the case, then other meshes might/probably have the same problem: screwed-up collision or only collision on one side.

Hope this helps.

Metallicow

Got the file and tested it. It works as advertised

Now if you can review our other meshes that would be nice

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:12 pm

Yep, looks like any other meshs that used that particular one as a base is screwed up also. I have further refined the original to V3 - 43.9kb, but you will have to wait until I get the rest done. There isn't that many... might take a week or so. They will take about 10 min a piece, doing a few each night. I will send you another PM when I have a complete package for you to download.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:19 pm

Yep, looks like any other meshs that used that particular one as a base is screwed up also. I have further refined the original to V3 - 43.9kb, but you will have to wait until I get the rest done. There isn't that many... might take a week or so. They will take about 10 min a piece, doing a few each night. I will send you another PM when I have a complete package for you to download.

Wonderful!

"Please enter this room. You will see it is very cosy and you will have all you need to work on the meshes."
"Now let me put this jewelery on your ankle. It will fit you very well you'll see."
"Nah... I'll keep the key or you will just lost it. I don't want you to be disturbed by such little things."
"Ok... All set! Yell if you need anything."
"I'll close the door now so no one will annoy you."
"Vorians! I got one!!! Chained him in the dungeon I did! Yes he didn't notice the trap before it was too late. Now we need to make him work the meshes and keep him there until we are done with Better Cities!"

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:00 pm

This is indeed The Best Modding Community! ^

Sorry for the Spam but I just want to step by and cheer up the amazing work BC Team do! Better Cities FTW! and soon with optimized Meshes!! :celebration:

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:40 am

Wonderful!

"Please enter this room. You will see it is very cosy and you will have all you need to work on the meshes."
"Now let me put this jewelery on your ankle. It will fit you very well you'll see."
"Nah... I'll keep the key or you will just lost it. I don't want you to be disturbed by such little things."
"Ok... All set! Yell if you need anything."
"I'll close the door now so no one will annoy you."
"Vorians! I got one!!! Chained him in the dungeon I did! Yes he didn't notice the trap before it was too late. Now we need to make him work the meshes and keep him there until we are done with Better Cities!"

Thinks to himself Haha, maybe I should start by making a collision sphere mod to represent the 10's of thousands of extra vertices and uneeded data.
*knock* *knock*
"What? Are you done in there?"
"Your sphere is ready madam, It is composed of 264,000+ vertices with collision and then added _far LOL It is as smooth as a baby's bump. Come on in." *snicker*
*madam walks in*
CTD

Anyway, your problem is _far worse than I initially suspected.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/Oblivion%20Screenies/Temp%20Oblivion%20Shots/Lotsofproblems.jpg
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/Oblivion%20Screenies/Temp%20Oblivion%20Shots/CollisionproblemsInGame.jpg

"Oh, and I sure am glad I stashed that lockpick away...."

*sneaks out the back while madam is unconscious*

This may take a bit of time....LOL

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:05 am

Thinks to himself Haha, maybe I should start by making a collision sphere mod to represent the 10's of thousands of extra vertices and uneeded data.
*knock* *knock*
"What? Are you done in there?"
"Your sphere is ready madam, It is composed of 264,000+ vertices with collision and then added _far LOL It is as smooth as a baby's bump. Come on in." *snicker*
*madam walks in*
CTD

Anyway, your problem is _far worse than I initially suspected.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/Oblivion%20Screenies/Temp%20Oblivion%20Shots/Lotsofproblems.jpg
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/Oblivion%20Screenies/Temp%20Oblivion%20Shots/CollisionproblemsInGame.jpg

"Oh, and I sure am glad I stashed that lockpick away...."

*sneaks out the back while madam is unconscious*

This may take a bit of time....LOL

To be honest, I have no clue about the normals and the rest. As mentioned before, meshes work is really not our specialty. So get back in your cel... room and fix those meshes if you can please. We have no time limit. As far we know they do not cause crashes so they are not critical to the welfare of the users. Any improvement we will take though.

Thank you for doing this. It is quite hard to get mesh workers...

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:35 pm

I also would like to say thank you for doing this Metallicow :foodndrink:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:52 pm

definitely big thanx!

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:37 pm

Related to the River Shack.

Spoiler

Okay, I'm a little annoyed. Ferntail's quest was okay, nice ring, etc. Got the key, and have searched Bravil high, low, underground, way up in the air and still can't find the hideout. The only hideout is one on the river-way, and I'm positive that it's not the one. Can someone please help me?

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:13 am

Related to the River Shack.

Spoiler

Okay, I'm a little annoyed. Ferntail's quest was okay, nice ring, etc. Got the key, and have searched Bravil high, low, underground, way up in the air and still can't find the hideout. The only hideout is one on the river-way, and I'm positive that it's not the one. Can someone please help me?

I think the one you're positive isn't the right one is the right one.