http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112502-BioWare-Co-Founder-RPGs-Are-Becoming-Less-Relevant

Now considering we are on the Bethesda forums I guess that means that we are all RPG fans correct? Well lets see what you all think of this.

Strange thing to say considering we still have companies like Obsidian, CDPR and of course Bethesda still making good RPG's (in my opinion). If I'm honest I think what he's really saying is "BioWare RPG's are becoming less relevant, as he said "Mass Effect, which is not so much an RPG as it is a conversational shooter." In this article. So what does everyone else think?

It's BioWare of today. I completely expect this type of comment.

I read that yesterday. Sure, different genres are blending together, but I would still like RPGs the classical way, with no/few genre blending. Think Arcanum/Fallout 1.

Bioware are part of the reason for this genre blending anyway.

Nope. The first is Bethesda, actually. Thanks for making an assumption article.

They're saying it as if RPG's revolve around them, I think they know they themselves are becoming less relevant as they lost a lot of their core fan base (myself included) and they are trying to bring down the market to their level by releasing statements like this. That's my theory.

I view it as Bioware-speak for "We're not making RPG's anymore", as if it weren't already apparent they're into making interactive movies featuring Twilight romances now.

I think it's a valid statement which is going to be misinterpreted and flamed.

you know the article wasn't written for you right

Actually, the first that comes to mind is Origin (developer of Ultima).

The world won't lose much if BioWare decides to start mass producing crappy FPS adventures with few lines of crappy dialogue.

IMO all online functions in games can go to hell, 'cept MMORPGs of course and shooters

Articles are written for the reader.

I dunno if if RPGs are becoming less relevant, but Bioware's brand of dating simulators with light combat kinda are.

Bobby Kotick (CEO of Activision) said the same about PC gaming. Just saying.

My sentiments exactly.
Seriously, @#@# Bioware. They're the ones responsible for turning an rpg into an hybrid between a shooter and a dating sym.
Real rpg would still sell very well. Just see how many people are waiting for Skyrim, and see how many people used to praise Dragon Age: Origins.

Not surprising that Bioware would say such a stupid line, kinda makes you wonder why Dragon Age 2 only has a 4.2 average on metacritic among gamers. I would disagree with that statement RPG's are probably the best genre out there and they have huge replay value unlike FPS's which only have 5 hour main campaign and then repetivite multiplayer. Catering will only get you so far, there are exceptions such as the Skyrim's of the world but Skyrim isn't catering it's all one style and it's very flexable as to what you can do with that style unlike Bioware games where you have to play as such and such. Mass Effect 1, 2 , 3 is a 3rd person shooter with terrible RPG elements you can only play one style with 6 classes unlike The Elder Scrolls where it's your choice of play style. You want to hack and slash or be tactical that's your choice, you can't really do that with a Bioware game and EA further puts them down the hole.

On one hand I agree completely, the genres are blending together and these strict definitions are becoming less relevant.

On the other, while "RPG elements" are quite common outside the genre this really means that character stats and advancement is no longer the core of the genre, but rather the story, character interactions, atmosphere, et cetera.

Dragon Age Origins outsold Mass Effect 2. And I'm sure we've all seen the graph comparing DA2's sales to DA:O's (http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/5693540/img/Anonymous/DA2DAO-2.jpg, the red bar has disappeared). If they would have stuck to making games like it we probably wouldn't have this thread.

Pretty much this. I'm not expecting BioWare to want to try to please RPG fans anymore. Based on ME2 and DA2, it seems like they want to go in a different direction. Doesn't bother me, I don't care for BioWare anymore.

I wouldn't mind more blending games. First person games with RPG stuff tossed in are awesome, like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Bloodlines and so on. I've been a fan of those hybrid games since, well, they arrived

I hate that there is almost no love for stats any more :shakehead: .I know I'm not the only one that loves having them in games.

Eventually you'll have blended every genre and gameplay mechanic imaginable and then where will you be? To me, simply combining aspects from different genres is akin to a cash grab. It seems that developers are more interested in how much they can grow their target audience than they are making a game that actually stands out or does something differently. When up against pushing your respective genre forward, throwing superficial elements onto something else seems like the safe bet.

This isn't a jab at BioWare, but in my eyes they're simply becoming less relevant in the RPG genre.

... his rotting corpse lurching on the strings pulled by an EA executive in the shadows.

No, not really.

I'm a fan of Bethesda's games and of Bioware's games, but I'm not an "RPG fan". I couldn't give a monkey's about whether a game is an RPG or a shooter or an adventure game. The only question I ask is, "Is it entertaining?"

If I take a quick mental check of my favourite games ever, half would be considered "hybrids" to various degrees - Fallout 3, the Mass Effect games, Oblivion, Morrowind and Vampire TMB are all RPGs with a strong action emphasis, which suits me because I find the actual combat in "pure" RPGs tedious beyond belief. Bioshock lets you improve your character/inventory - traits traditionally associated with RPGs - but I love that because I find straight-up shooters disappointing because I don't get the feeling of progression if I can't upgrade my gear.

RPG fans are uniquely genre-obsessed in the same way that metal fans bang on about whether something is "real" heavy metal. The rest of the world doesn't give a rat's behind and views hybridisation as a positive thing. Imagine if Nirvana had come out and everyone had said, "Oh, that's too punky and we only like metal, you're not allowed to play", or someone had told Nine Inch Nails (or their predecessors) that you weren't allowed to put synths and guitars together. Imagine if someone had told the six Pistols that speeded-up 50s rock'n'roll basslines shouldn't be slammed together with 60s garage rock, or if someone had told Pink Floyd not to deviate from playing blues.

Imagine if Sam Raimi had been told that comedy and horror can't appear in the same film, or if howls of outrage greeted Casablanca because it had too much romance for a political thriller.

"The RPG in the context of the current world is - well, it's not specifically irrelevant, but it's becoming less relevant in and of itself" - and games are getting better because of it.

so you expect them to list every company who might come to someone's mind when you say rpg?

It needs to be more than entertaining. A game, to me, needs to be more than some entertainment to kill time. The "is it entertaining"-question is, sadly, the question game developers ask themselves these days, immediately followed by, "can we make a lot of money from it?".


"The rest of the world doesn't care about your stupid little niche group" is a completely worthless argument. The people in that niche group care, and the people in that niche group have been paying good money in exchange for good games - they don't deserve to be 'betrayed' for big money, and they most certainly don't deserve to be derided as 'fans banging on about'. Same with metal, incidentally, when a band starts to make commercial junk, people who appreciated them when they were metal act betrayed and are usually seen as elitist or stuck-up by the 'new' fans, but think of it: you paid good money to give a band CD revenues and exposure, and then, when they sell out, making junk music for big bucks, they expect you to be okay with it? "Thanks for the cash and exposure, now we're going to make commercial crap and we no longer give a toss about you!". It's the same with companies like BioWare.


Oh, if only...