Sorry if I jumped down your throat there.

If you mean the NCR/Brotherhood problem, I'd prefer to have a choice like is offered, say with the Khans: you can get them to leave, get them to switch sides, remove a person from power, etc. (Or like with some of Caesar's quests, where you can tell him you did X when really you did Y.) Ideally, I'd like to be able to convince the NCR to ignore the Brotherhood for the time to focus on the Legion, or for both to focus on the Legion, or something like that, short of total reconciliation.

It seems a bit odd to me that you can be in high standing with the NCR, have done a dozen quests for them, have aided them materially and in battle repeatedly, but they won't accept your help to secure the dam (which they intend to do anyway) if you won't kill your friends first.

I actually thought about this choice.

It occurs to me that the Brotherhood could have had some more dialogue options that would have been more "fair" to the player. With Hardin, you have no idea what exactly he's all about other than he wants to lift the emergency. I would have liked a description of what, exactly, they believe.

Hardin: I'd like to retake Helios One and drive NCR out of the region. To avenge the hundreds of dead brothers.

McNamara: I'd like to just bring an END to all of this nightmare.

Maybe even throw in a bit with Moore.

"I saw hundreds of friends and squadmates cut down and butchered by the Brotherhood."

That is an endemic problem with the NCR. Listen to what the NCR NPCs have to say if things are going the NCR's way. A lot of it is downright jingoistic in nature: "They shouldn't have mess with our great army". "The Kings aren't worth our time anymore." "They got the hint that these are our new territories."

That's why the NCR ending, if you really think about it... isn't the best ending for the NCR. The nation as a whole is in dire need of a bloodied nose to snap them out of their fervent nationalism.

I was thinking of doing a topic on NCR as a parody of America during the War on Terror but figured it'd be needlessly inflammatory. But yes, there's a lot of things wrong with NCR.

1. "We don't torture people!" *pause* "So I need you to go in there and torture him FOR us."

2. "Hoover Dam is OURS by right of us BEING here!"

3. Mister House, who I state is more neutral than evil, is right they're plotting to kill him in order to take over his city.

4. The mass settlement (sharecropping) of the Mojave with no respect to its current inhabitants.

5. The fact Crimson caravans and Heck Gunderson seem to control the NCR's economy.

6. The fact they're not even very GOOD at providing security for their citizenry.

I think the Yes Man ending is best because it's all about giving the people of New Vegas the chance to form their own government - for better or worse. If you believe in freedom over security, it's the best.

If you believe in "creature comforts over liberty" (which is not WRONG) Mister House or NCR may be better.

Personally, I've always thought (much to the chagrin of the strict constitutionalists in my family) that a strong and stable society is best built around a strong and stable military at it's core**. So, I'm favoring an NCR victory. With the way the Mojave is (not) working, supply lines and military strength are really the only ways to hold it. Using that as a basis, NCR can rather quickly build up it's strength in the region. "Join the army and gain [benefits here] for your family."


**No, I do not mean a dictatorship. I mean making the military almost as much a social institution as a national defensive one, with it's structure as much a basis for society as the rule of civilian law.

Bizarrely, I agree. However, it's because of this I disagree with NCR being the best choice. NCR is just coming off a devastating war with the Brotherhood of Steel and is pushing forward East. If they sucessfully take the Mojave, that just means they're now at war with Caesar's Legion and that means they'll have to conquer *IT* and gain all of THAT territory. The thinning of soldiers out that would result would mean NCR doesn't have any forces to control and stabilize the area.

It's only by MAMMOTH effort the Courier gets NCR's military in shape for the battle at Hoover Dam. Otherwise; Camp Forlorn Hope, the Strip, Camp Golf, and God knows who else would have been slaughtered.

New Vegas as an independent nation, oddly, would be better for NCR in the long run as it could build trade relations and have a buffer state with the Legion that would allow NCR to rebuild itself.

This, of course, only being possible because the Yes Man ending ALSO provides several hundred Securitron Mark IIs to serve as New Vegas' military until a proper one can be recruited.

(I'd say the Securitrons roughly would be equivalent to a several thousand man army)

my thoughts exactly: I usually end off with using Yes Man and roleplay that New Vegas could play the diplomacy game with both the Legion and NCR as a buffer state and trade partner. A post-apocalyptic real-politik!

Because Hardin is a hardliner.

Why? Hardin is a hard-liner and you put him in charge; you are stuck in a hard plave but unless you want to go back you have to make a choice. Choices have consequences so hurry up and make one. There is no warning, again tough, you made the choice that Hardin was better than McNamara and now you have to live with it.

Except the NCR military isn't strong. It's hamstrung by an act of nepotism that put a thoroughly incompetent man in charge of the Mojave operations. They have a general that sits on his thumbs all day instead of harrying the Legion. They have an attack dog of a colonel handling diplomatic affairs. They have a much cooler-headed and competent colonel who was denied promotion by that act of nepotism reduced to a desk jockey.

Oliver has the panache of Patton and the competence of Halsey.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1184918-yes-man-vs-ncr-ending/

This thread might be a good place to discuss a lot of NCR's flaws vs. Independent Vegas.

But, defending General Oliver as much as I can (being a baby-faced character is a HORRIBLE choice for NCR's Patton anologue), the issue with Hoover Dam can't be ascribed to simple incompetence. While "General Wait and See" might have had some political motivations, the simple fact is that Caesar DID eventually attack Hoover Dam where NCR was strongest. This is a strategy done by no less than Sam Houston and the Duke of Wellington, forcing the enemy to engage you on their home turf.

Really, NCR's position in the Mojave is pretty terrible to begin with. They don't have a veteran set of troopers, they don't have the support of the local populace, and Caesar has vast reserves he's willing to commit to a war with the Mojave and NCR. Bluntly, Caesar and Vulpes have a lot of very cunning plans for dismantling NCR support and territories.

In Moore's case, she's not handling the ambassador business. The AMBASSADOR is in charge of ambassador duties. It's just that NCR only intends to do diplomacy with the Kings and Boomers. The Khans and Brotherhood are meant to be annihilated as military targets due to the former being allies of the Legion and the second being a body NCR is already at war with.

(If Van Buren is canon then it's 28 years long)

I've got both the NCR and Mr House pushing me to blow up the Brotherhood, it gets pretty damn confusing, as basically the brotherhood seem to simply just want to hide in their bunkers in their fancy armour and eventually die out.
They dont seem like too much of a threat in the mojave, so I dont know why so many people hate them so. The boomers, they could be a threat, but then you were given the opportunity to get them to join you and assist you however you wanted. I dont get why you couldnt get the NCR and the brotherhood to co-operate, if only for the duration of the battle for the dam. After all, both have the common enemy (apart from each other).


Did anyone else get quite a severe warning whilst working for the NCR that cautioned you against helping the yesman anymore?


Apart from the big threats, such as the legion, who want to actively go out and destroy towns, [censored] and kill and generally cause havoc, I'd have been quite happy to leave absolutely everyone alone, if they left me alone.
I was just happy being a scavenger with a taste for Deathclaw omellette.. I didnt ever think my actions would drag me into being such a big part of a massive scary battle..


*moves to jacobstown*

They can, you just need to be a member of the Brotherhood of Steel to do it.