I'm sure by now that people are familiar with the Brotherhood of Steel's involvement in the main quest. Most factions will urge you to wipe them out, but luckily you can tell Yes Man to ignore them. Some people might have also noticed that if you help Hardin usurp Elder McNamara you can become a paladin for the Brotherhood (and for McNamara if you go that route).

The problem with this is that if you've spent the entire game working with the NCR, and have already destroyed Mr. House, you can't ally with the Brotherhood and NCR unless McNamara is still Elder. Unfortunately there's no warning of this, and no way to work with Hardin. Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. My only option to progress is to backstab one of my allies.

If I decide to stay with the Brotherhood at this point I'd have to wipe out the NCR, with whom I've spent 99% of my time in the game working for. If I go with the NCR I'd have to destroy the Brotherhood, who I've also helped quite a bit.

I could always go with Yes Man but that's not an option as far as I'm concerned. I should be able to at least pass a speech check or something to get Hardin to sign a truce with the NCR. Right now I'm basically locked at this portion of the main quest because I made a decision that at the time didn't seem to have repercussions this severe.

So really, all I'd like to know is why aren't we given that option to convince Hardin?

Some quest stages to put into the console to skip ahead and tell the NCR colonel that the Brotherhood won't be a problem would also be a great help.

Hardin's close minded fanatic, that's why.

he is also a power hungry maniac. He finally managed to usurp control of BoS, there is no way in hell he will let someone else (such as the NCR) tell him what to do. He have finally made it and he will not give up his power even if it pulls everything down around him.

That and he is also a moron. To seriously think he has a chance to challenge the NCR.

He's not a close-minded fanatic at all though. When you ask him what his problem is with McNamara he just tells you he thinks the path they're taking is wrong and is only doing the group harm. He won't even act until you find some legitimate cause to get McNamara to step down.

Once you finally resolve the issue in McNamara's favor he even lays off and lets him continue now that you've "talked some sense into him". And McNamara is simply demoted to "knight" rank after Hardin takes the seat. If he was really a power-hungry nut he could have had him exiled or worse.

It just seems really odd considering Hardin never gives off the vibe that he's unreasonable, yet you aren't even given the option to try and talk to him about the NCR.

Either way right I've got no choice but to waste one of my allies or do nothing, and TBH that's the worst part of it. House is dead, I already did the Yes Man route before, and Caesar's Legion is already my enemy.

I'll just have to wait until someone lists the quest stages off somewhere.

I have found my character stuck in exactly this situation - - came to this messageboard to see if anyone else had noticed this. It is nearly like a malfunction, to be honest.

My character has this [censored] at the NCR demanding that he walk up and exterminate the Brotherhood outpost, and there is no option to tell her to go [censored] herself.

Also - - I accidently pushed the House quest turn-in too far (I was actually there to deal with House on behalf of NCR) and before I reloaded to my last save, I saw that House was in the process of making the same demand.

At the point when I went back to the Brotherhood bunker (with NCR expecting me to blow it up), that was when I got the PA training and was welcomed and such. But even after that (I checked to be sure), there was no option to tell the NCR [censored] that no, I had no interest in blowing up the Brotherhood.

It would seem that I have to go along with what the game wants to see what the 'ending' is like (though I run a mod to not-end it heh!!!!) ... but it is kinda artificial at this point eh ...

It also sorta made me into a forced -assassin with the Great Khans. That didn't seem right but, it wasn't as not-right as this Brotherhood thing.

Hardin's portrayed as a hardliner. Why, his quest if you put him in the elder's seat boils down to "you know those guys who sell energy weapons? Yeah, go kill them for having the temerity to sell lasers."

Of course he's not going to support the NCR, given his personality. That's just silly.



There is, sort of. You can just stop doing the NCR quests and start on the Yes Man quests. Of course, the NCR won't take too kindly to that.



Killing Papa Khan is the easiest way, but you can convince him to stop supporting the legion as well. The NCR doesn't care if the Khans show up to help, they just want them not in bed with Caesar.

I did not necessarily have a desire to deal with brotherhood directly on the issue, or negotiate on anyone's behalf, or get them to agree upon anything. I wanted to tell the NCR [censored] "No.", straightforward, and that's that, and she can live with that decision.

The dialogue options I had on Papa Khan, well I tried at least 2 of the 3, none of them were speech checks, he did not seem convinceable or anything. I ended up doing him in with a full VATS of 10mm smg. He had a rough life but, he'd picked a bad bedfellow in Legion, so I let that one slide.

It's artificial at this point though eh ... I read briefly about the yes-man thing, and it's kinda not my pick of things if you know what I mean.

From the moment this NCR person first began to make this demand, I was looking for a "no, you can go to hell" response and there was none. sigh.

If you're disobeying the NCR's orders, why do you think you'd get to advance along the NCR questline? The NCR obviously doesn't want someone they can't trust helping to protect the president or the dam.



If you hadn't murdered him, then as soon as you left his hut, you should have been approached by his lieutenant, who would say that you should go around and convince the other Khans that Caesar is just using them. If you did that, then you could have gone back to Papa Khan and he'd have the Khans move elsewhere, away from both sides.

Even that is different than what happened. It didn't give me an option to "disobey". I have to be able to refuse, not have an open quest in my log forever? At least not at the point when it seems to have converged into one... thing.

Another thing is that the little Brotherhood bunker doesn't even have a horse in this race. They weren't planning to do anything new or were even necessarily aware. They were sitting, alone. Ya know? Great Khans at least seemed to have a plan regarding allying with the 'wrong' side. This Brotherhood thing is just an extermination mission.




I did walk out of that tent, actually. I was looking to see if there were any other options out there. nobody/nothing approached me.

If that was supposed to happen, the endgame slide thingie is going to be kinda borked, because killing their little deal off was not the choice I wanted.

By "disobey" I meant "not blowing up the bunker", the game doesn't let you refuse her order, but that's a relatively minor issue. If you feel so strongly about it, attack her. Then you won't feel anything at all.

Sry, was channeling Vulpes for a moment. Seriously though, at that point in the game, you're pretty far into the NCR's camp, so it's not like you have anywhere else *to* go, except Yes Man.



Well you probably ran into a bug then. You might want to try speaking to the lieutenant yourself, see if that triggers the conversation.

hm yeah good idea on trying to trigger that Khan thing.

The Brotherhood thing does not seem properly resolveable to me unless I fire up the GECK and change some [censored]. I could do it but, not sure I feel like going to all of that. I can just see what the game finish goes like, and go on with my life instead =p

I believe McNamara's modus operendi for forming a truce with the NCR is because he is afraid of them. Since the defeat at Helios One, he believes the BoS has no hope of winning against the NCR.
Hardin believes he still has a shot.

And they are both correct depending on if you side with the NCR or Yes Man. So, Hardin isn't really being unreasonable at all.

It's not the Brotherhood who throws out the NCR in the Yes Man ending. It's Yes Man's enormous robot army. If Hardin was banking on a huge robot army coming out of nowhere to help the Brotherhood, he must be some kind of prophet or psychic.

Just stuck now, same point. I've to blow up the bunker or the quest stops.
This svcks! I can't believe i found a dead end like this in a Fallout game. For me this series was always about freedom of game (still unmatched) and now i found that not only you are forced into a decision, but also different quest leads to the same dumb decision! I disconnected House, and kill EVERYONE in the Legion camp, for this? Just because i've changed the Elder with some more open-minded folk?
Well, i think my game stops here. Until a patch or something make available some pacific solution, i'm not going to enjoy New Vegas anymore.
It's so frustrating.

Welllllll

my character should be intelligent enough to be able to say to NCR "I've liked you guys so far, but this job here is nothing but bloodthirsty, and is meaningless. Do you want to move forward or are we skipping this one?"

Ahwell its alright.

Hardin was banking on the inevitable clash at Hoover Dam to distract the NCR forces long enough for the BoS to retake Helios One. He succeeds, regardless of the route you take. The only difference is what comes after retaking Helios One.

The problem I have with the NCR is that while yes, you can help them out and they are (arguably) the most good of the big 3, you never actually join them. And since they give you orders to wipe out really big players in the scene or essentially tell you to get lost if you refuse it leaves you with little choice.

But, since you can actually JOIN the BoS, you would expect some sort of dialog when they start throwing orders like that. Unfortunately in the case of the NCR colonel you don't get jack. Ducking out means backstabbing the entire faction you just helped and strengthened across the wasteland, or betraying the faction you're actually a member of. It's a really cheesy dead end in a long line of quests if you're trying to work out a good karma character.

Yeah you get the idea that the Brotherhood and NCR are enemies and everything, but you can convince the other minor factions of New Vegas to turn sides. Even the Great Khans and they were direct allies with Caesar's Legion.

But put Hardin in the Elder's chair and nope, no chances at all.

I think that this is actually how it's supposed to be. In real life... dead end happens sometimes. If you try to stay on the both sides when two factions are status belli, even if you succeed even major time in helping them and supporting - it's nothing more then putting some more oil into the fire. In the end, there inevitable will be a moment when you have to choose, whom to side with. And you HAVE to choose, or step back trying to find another way, never making a choice, just running from the problem, abandoning both of your once-allies.

NCR colonel is stubborn, she is a blood and bones of military, she don't believe that there's anyone out there, who is not an enemy. So is Hardin. They both are close-minded fanatics of their own ways, and you can do anything you want, but you never can convince any one of them to side with another. That's just how it is, and if you want to have but one of them as you ally, you have to choose, who it is to go down.

That's tragic, and it's just how it should be. Face your own deeds - you made Hardin in command. So now you have to deal with consequences of your descisions. Or just run away, finding yourself with no choice at all.

Hardin wants the BOS to remain a closed, focused, organisation. Ultimately, as Veronica says, that will lead to their downfall. The Elder, however, is far more pragmatic, and keeping him in power is the best thing for the BOS, the NCR, and for you.

Yeah, there is no warning about this, why would there be? You make your bed, you have to lie in it. In NV, just because someone gives you a quest, you don't have to follow through on it. Think for a while, what would the outcome be? Would it be in your best interest? There are many many times in the game when such choices come up, you don't have to do EVERY quest, infact some of them will hold you back if you complete them.

So there's no special dialogue option to tell the NCR off if you've already completed the BoS questline? "I'm a Paladin within the Brotherhood! You expect me to stab them in the back?!"

Well, good thing i couldn't figure out how to get to where Hardin was and thus went with McNamara instead I would have chosen him anyway, he seemed like a more reasonable, if a bit misguided man. But that was fixed by the resolution of the Still in the Dark quest with him in charge

Ive done Veronicas companion quest, in which she tries to convince the Elder to start makeing allys with people like the followers of the apcololipse. He says no so the next part of the quest is finding some kind of proof; i picked the pulse gun ( which can obliderate anyone wearing power armor ) and when Veronica shows it to his face he says that could be the only one of its kind and doesnt change his mind one bit.

I'd kill all of them since he is a hard headed bastard but Im afraid Id hurt Veronicas fealings and lose her as a companion.

i destroyed them after the quest, when she basically isn't a member anymore, and Veronica didn't say anything about it.

Reading all of this, I now see that this is a clarity thing. The changes to 'fix' this (in my mind) are not very involved.

As far as my own game goes. Now that I realize that its possible to get an incorrect impression that the main quest is railroading you in a certain direction, but it is actually not, I'll probably end up backing my save way back to before the point where it started becoming artificial, and go forward from there. I have about 100 savegames so, this isn't hard =p

I found the Great Khan dude you mentioned. He was nowhere near the longhouse. I did actually go out and look around in the initial savegame but hadn't quite looked THAT far I guess eh ...

This issue has stopped my game in it's tracks.
I should have the options of telling Hardin that the NCR wants the BoS destroyed (and I'm pretty sure I can manage to do that!) and that he will have no choice in the matter and/or telling Moore that there is no way in Hell that I'm going to betray the BoS.
That way, Moore can either throw me out, attack me directly or respect my decision. It is Moore's instruction to have the BoS wiped out, the Courier isn't an NCR conscript and can rightly tell her 'No'.
As a BoS paladin, there should be a choice on whether you destroy your Brothers or not without messing up the Quests.

Looks like my game stops here. :brokencomputer: