Wrong!
No, its about the money. The profit margin in PC sales is not worth the extra investment.

just wait for the mods to start coming out and this game will be fine.

Yep.

No pride in the actual finished product anymore. That is: "The best as it can be done" thing.


:cool:

You dolts don't know what a casual player is. NO CASUAL GAMER PLAYS SKYRIM!

FFS, stop being stupid. It's making me angry.

I don't think even the modders can save this game.

Uhh you're wrong about that. Go back to the reactions of people playing Morrowind on the XBOX and you'll see what we are talking about. The main complaint from casual players was that they didn't know where to go or what to do and everything seemed unorganized. Hence now we have a nice little marker telling you exactly where to go and where everything is located. hardcoe players who can read journals and look over maps had no issue finding their way in Morrowind. Casual players who have no brains were the ones complaining.

The game play is the same as it's always been, there is still lore, there is still a deep world, and this is the most alive the world has ever been. The game world is well fleshed out with some really cool amazing things to see. Read books, make potions, watch people go about they're day, this is hardly a casual game though you still have to spend your perk points wisely if you want to create a satisfying character just like in any Elder Scrolls game. It's still the same gameplay that you know and love

yeah because wandering back and forth between two points is so deep. It's not deep just tedious when you really want to get to some place. Morrowind was a bit unorganized and tedious it was their first 3d enviroment type game. I played Arena when they released it for free only a little because DOS box svcks but the game played better than Morrowind.

This game is like the ultimate bimbo. She looks amazing but as soon as she speaks, you realize she has no brains or personality. So you tell me to admire the beauty. lol nice.

streamlining works in context specific settings its not a brush to paint on everything with. especially when its not needed.

in es4 the flywheel for quick weapon select and deselect was hands down far better than it is now. rpgs are supposed to be intelligent games and the elder scrolls series used to make you think - now its a like flouride in its ability to make you go duuuh!

fast travel used to be the teleport spell and the more your studied it the further you could go. i read another post about it. you used to have to do research and read books to find out where things were. now its streamlined into reading books only to see if you get a bump.

not saying the game svcks. but streamling is ok when there is a SNAG. now the UI is a HUGE snag for PC users. a total step backwards. maybe it sounded nice in conception but its terrible.

Skyrim has far and away the better leveling model compared to Oblivion. Oblivion may have had lots of numbers and required lots of time and energy to level the perfect character, but that was due to poor design. In Skyrim you do what you want to and level up; in Oblivion you made your primary skills ones you didn't intend to use to game the system for +5 stat boosts.

Skyrim improves upon every aspect of Oblivion, stop whining just for the sake of it.

/signed

You have some valid concerns but honestly who wants to play a video game to read a book? I mean, seriously?

We both agree the UI is horrible. With that said, we have to blame the consoles for that atrociousness. If more PC gamers actually bought Skyrim the developers would pay more attention to the PC version. It's too bad the PC game market is in the shape it is, as game like this do not get the attention it deserves due to lack of interest/sales comparable with consoles.

yep... but its not entirely hopeless. this process of abandoning the hardcoe that made you popular for the mainstream who ask for so very, very, little isnt unique to video games: every new medium went through a phase like this. the only difference is that video games seem to be evolving at a very rapid pace compared to say, movies or comic books, so it wont take 2 decades for game developers to start getting respect and things to start balancing out.

and of course we must remember; the whole entertainment industry is pretty terrible right now. the spoiled tween demographic has infected much more than video games, so its not like this is a unique problem to our industry... weve been spared the worst of it actually, at least there arent any twilight games or anything.

god, i hope there isnt a twilight game... :yucky: .

Can anyone explain to me what "dumbing down" actually means? It certainly has a negative connotation. Is it the same thing as making the game easier? Or less complicated, easier to understand?

If it means making the game less complicated, why do you think this is inherently bad?

Who thinks Skyrin gets made with out consoles? Who would care if Skyrim was made or not?

Actually there's been some studies recently that show the PC market has much more money there than expected. It may even continue to grow. I think that's the only point of yours I can say I disagree with. Though breaking out into said market is quite challenging, what works on one platform usually doesn't work on another.

Nowadays its just about the profits.

The whole point of this thread is based upon a few assumptions, which I more or less agree with, which may or may not be to my detrement.

Firstly, Oblivion was considered to be 'dumbed down' when compared to its predecessors because:

1) the dialogue in Oblivion was carved down to a fraction of the text-based dialogue of Morrowind with fewer options and was nowhere near as complex or interesting.
2) the main story of Oblvion was essentially 'Doom with Swords! Featuring Sean Bean!'. Compared to Morrowind's complex themes of racial tension, madness, definitions of divinity and the dubious nature of the Nerevarine's 'hero' status, Oblivion's story was very thin.
3) the map markers and fast-travel system led many players to feel as if they were having their hand held throughout. It was considered an insult to their intelligence and detracted from the spirit of exploration.
4) the level scaling system was almost universally panned for shattering the illusion of a living, breathing world, and led to a homogenised, safe, boring world that wasn't worth exploring. Hence the popularity of FCOM on the PC.

The assumptions the OP is making (I think) are based upon the PC playing host to a string of pedigree RPG games, to which Morrowind belongs along with Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Ultima, Daggerfall etc. All of these are set in very detailed worlds, stuffed with lore and revolve around long stories that require (or at least favour) the player to sink lots of time into them to get the most out of the experience.

Market research indicated that most console players only sink 20-40 hours play into the likes of Oblivion. Since the console market is where the big money is to be made, is there really going to be any room for a game that follows the pattern of the games mentioned above? Not really - market forces dictate that lore-heavy, detailed games that require 200+ hours of gameplay aren't going to sell that well.

There's also a whiff of elitism about it all, in that the games I mentioned above ARE better than Oblivion and Fable and the other RPGs designed for or ported from consoles. Dumbing down is inherently bad for those players who know that the likes of Bethesda can, and arguably should, put a lot more effort into their games (and I'm not talking about technical shortcomings like lack of use of DirectX 11 or cruddy UI here). Most PC gamers who grew up on RPGs like Baldur's Gate are often left wanting more, and harbour resentment against the console sector and use it as a scapegoat for 'dumbed down' content. I do think there is an element of truth in this, but console-bashing doesn't help at all.

On the flip side, I agree with the pro-active argument of 'Don't like it? Get modding!' for the PC sector. As long as the PC community is willing to put its money where its mouth is and create excellent, gameplay-enhancing mods, then it can [censored] and whine as long as it likes.

because porting is much cheaper and cost effective.

because it comes with windows and thus is forced?

just realized i quoted a page 1 post.... my bad.

Unless you are an indie developer, it is always about the profits and even if you are, once you make that hit, you will sell out. nature of the beast. If you do not, you are stupid.

actually Indie devs are MORE about the profits then bigger game companies because they NEED it to make another game.

Maybe, but they have to make a great game to make the coin.

I was expecting a thread addressing issues with streamlining, but I've found a thread which exists for no purpose other than to mindlessly point fingers at console players on the basis of them playing... on consoles...


Explain to me where the correlation or redeeming value of your thread comes in.