Read it carefully before you declare what you think it says.
Ulfric is an uncooperative asset.
Tullius is otoh fully cooperative.

Ulfric is an idiot and the Empire svcks...

I vote the Jarl of Whiterun to be the High King of Skyrim and Skyrim to NOT be part of the Empire!

Yeah, that dossier made me think of Ulfric as a tragic character rather than a diluted egoist, but actually like him/the Stormcloaks has still proven to be damned difficult.

the main point is, the thalmor will benefit from the war no matter what. If only ulfric can open his mind wider and see this. You think the Empire thinks its alright for those snotty elves walking around THEIR land, doing anything they want, and take away Talos? If only Ulfric had known...

I didn't realize that "slowly falling apart" means "slowly-rebuilding" these days?


4E1: Blackmarsh secedes from The Empire
4E5-6: The Argonians invade southern Morrowind ( = only northern Morrowind remains part of The Empire, and northern Morrowind was nuked by the eruption of Vvardenfell)
4E29: Alinor and Valenwood start the Aldmeri Dominion
4E115: Elsweyr isn't part of The Empire anymore
4E175: Hammerfell leaves The Empire
4E188: Wayrest falls to the corsairs
4E188: Bravil is torn apart in a drug war

So, what's left of The Empire by 4E201? Cyrodiil, Skyrim, northern Morrowind, and the parts of High Rock that haven't fallen to corsairs or similar things yet.

Cyrodiil - these Imperials probably still haven't figured out how to clean up the mess from the Great War yet; also under control by drug lords
northern Morrowind - I doubt that the Dunmer have rebuilt their homeland yet, not without all the useful Argonian slaves they used to have for all the hard work
High Rock - under attack by corsairs
Skyrim - in a civil war.



"Slowly-rebuilding"? I don't see it.

Given that the Empire sold him up the river to the Thalmor after he retook Markarth, it's highly unlikely that anyone could convince him that the Empire wasn't allied with them.

@the thread in general:

Even though the Thalmor dossier calls Ulfric an 'asset', that does not mean that he is actually working with them, nor even in contact with them in any way. In fact, it explicitly states that they do not want him to win either, as they have a vested interest in keeping the two sides beating each others' heads in for as long as possible. Rather, he is considered an 'asset' because he is both tying up and wearing out the Imperial Army, thus preventing its use against the Thalmor. In fact, General Tullius is a Thalmor asset when considered in this light, because he refuses to back down and keeps throwing more men into the fight with the Stormcloaks.

He certainly did in the past, now he's labelled as "uncooperative". To them is still an asset... in the worst case scenario they can blackmail him or reveal to everyone how he betrayed his army during the siege of the white gold tower.

Yes, Tullius certaintly enjoys serving the Thalmor!
Like that time he had all those Talos worshippers jailed.
Or when the Thalmor ordered him to release Ulfric at Helgen, he just let them take him.
And remember when that Thalmor justicar gave him orders and Tullius followed them to the letter?

Oh, wait, those things never happend.

Correction. Alduin saved you. Ulfric saved himself. But, yeah, he's just a more useful pawn in the Thalmor's plans. This sort of thing goes on all the time IRL.

Both sides are assets to the thalmor so long as the war continues.



Why yes. Yes I do remember.

Oh yeah, if I was a Nord I'd certainly believe the Alinor Tattler's expose on Ulfric's war crimes. LOL

You, sir, just won an argument.

People see Ulfric as a Thalmor "asset" and they start to freak out. I find politics to be not the best way to see things. Ulfric had a vision, a common threat to fight against, and people to fight with.

When you see Ulfric, you can't help but to see Genghis Khan (albeit in a much smaller scale, and with an awesome Karaoke Fest)

Ulfric is not really the best candidate to be the True High King, he's simply the one with the best reputation among his people.
Ulfric's motives may not be 100% guilt free, and once he's the High King, Skyrim may not be in a golden era.

But Nords are warriors. Give them a common enemy to fight, and they fight.

Not all Nords share a common enemy, but at least enough Nords have the same enemy to fight as a military organization

Allows Thalmor to travel freely in Skyrim (and presumably cyrodiil) to gather intel.
Hands over suspected talos worshippers to be tortured into confession.
Allows Thalmor to bribe Jarls and the wealth class with chests of gold, parties, and insider trade agreements further solidifying Thalmor political presence.
Invites Thalmor operatives to sit in on political meetings.
And is Tullius sleeping with Elenwen?

It is interesting to note the dossier states that after the war contact was established and he had proven his worth as an asset. This, of course, is the Thalmor write-up and I'd be interested to know if he was playing an angle of his own vis a vis the Thalmor and what his cooperation entailed. You'd think that after the Great War a proud Nord would hate any/all Aldmeri.

It's also interesting to note that I think the Thalmor were planning to intervene at Helgen but that dragon beat them to it. My two-cents.

The Thalmor could have been using a human proxy/ agent. Supposing that it really is true that the Thalmor were trying to manipulate Ulfric, it doesn't necessarily follow that he knew they were doing so.

Ugh. I've tried so hard to find the least objectionable faction to side with but now I know why after hundreds of hours of play I've been avoiding the Main Quest. I just can't find a side to support. My game might end after I take the Elder Scroll back to Paarthurnax. Then Ysabel Maro can just go back to Cyrodiil and I'll go play Oblivion. I still love Skyrim though.

Ulfric is an uncooperative asset (for now) for his role in perpetuating a civil war in Skyrim. The Empire is a cooperative asset (for now) due to the Concordat. Neither are Thalmor sympathizers in the least.
The Thalmor are master schemers. Trying to find something free of their influence is probably impossible.

The Thalmor are allowed to enforce the Talos ban themselves after Ulfric raised hell about it.
Tullius had no reason to set free a suspected Stormcloak traitor, and the Thalmor already knew he worshipped Talos.
Is throwing parties and giving gifts illegal? He couldn't stop that in the first place short of intimidation and murder.
The only time that happend was during the peace conferences, and that was meant to intimidate Ulfric.
High elves make horrendous bedfellows.

If I was to guess the thalmor probaly blackmailed ulfric about him giving them information during his torture. He would unwilling submit to the thalmor if he believed that his public face was at threat, but eventually pulled away. The thalmor left him alone since his rebellion would have left the weakened empire as an easy target.

The Thalmor are allowed to enforce talos ban after the Emperor decided "screw this Empire and all the Septims before me, oh and the Redguards too I guess. Do we have more wines?"

Also, Ulfric was called to aid in Markarth with a promise for Talos worship, so it's more like "Igmund ignited the fire and Ulfric raised hell after the flames burnt him"

Throwing parties like that is as illegal as top brass of wealthy companies holding parties attended by the President, Vice President, and all the ministers. It makes them give a preference to the company. In this case, they'll be more willing to submit to the Aldmeri Dominion later

Lastly, it heavily implies you've bedded an Aldmer before

Cyrodiil is nothing without Skyrim backing it. Without Skyrim, the Empire has no true military strength. The very first Empire was formed when the Nords decided to assist the Ayleid's slaves in a revolt. When the Imperial City got blitz sacked by the Thalmor in the Great War, the puny Imperials went running north, and cried to the Nords for help. The Nords once again assisted the Imperials. They slaughtered every single Thalmor soldier in the IC, then proceeded to crush the entire Thalmor invasion force at the Battle of Red Ring. Then how do the Imperials repay them? By spitting in the eye of the Nords by signing the WGC. The Nords have every damn right to rebel against the Empire and break free.

Well, the Empire signed the WGC with the intention of ignoring the Talos ban and hoping the Thalmor don't notice. Of course, the Markarth incident happend and you know the rest. Frankly, Igmund, the Silver-Bloods, and everyone in the reach should be defenestrated. Don't like Ulfric either, but not many high windows in Windhelm. Figures.

And considering the setting Skyrim takes place in, I don't think laws exist against that. Infighting, bribery, and functions akin to the one at the Embassy are pretty commonplace in High Rock and maybe Hammerfell.

And on the last one, no comment.
If anything, I'm surprised more Imperials aren't up in arms about this. Not only did they worship Talos and fight for the Empire, but their homes were completely destroyed by the Dominion. Atleast the Nords have a house to go back to, provided they lived.

Surely the last thing you'd expect when you sign up to be a slave is to have your master not notice when you slack off?
I know office bosses have clients and their bosses to worry about and generally don't have much time to watch over you 24/7, but the Aldmeri Dominion literally had nothing to do left but to crush the Empire. There's really nothing else interesting to do

Just like I said: the parties are technically not illegal, but as Carl Johnson said it, "The system is perfectly impenetrable, but there's always a weakness: the human heart".

Then I'll put the last one to rest

The problem was that the Aldmeri Dominion thought that they had crushed the Empire. Their really is no other explanation for why it took something as big as the 'Markarth Incident' to see that he Empire had the wool over their eyes. I suppose the Thalmor's greatest weakness is their pride and their massive egos.

And people will always be corruptable on both sides. Stormcloaks, Imperials, and Thalmor alike all speak the universal language of money. Outlawing parties won't change that.

Actually, considering that party is held by Elenwen, who is not a member of some company trying to garner favor, but the Emissary of the Aldmeri Dominion in Skyrim, it makes perfect sense that she's inviting Jarls and Thanes to her party. She's a diplomat, and she's supposed to meet people involved in politics. A lot of political types discuss politics in parties more than they do a meeting table, because it's less formal and provides a much more inviting and friendly atmosphere. She can also meet with Maven and the guy from the East Empire Trading Company. Maybe she's trying to secure trade deals with them, or because she already does business with them, she invites them because she appreciates the quality goods they bring her.