Yessss, yes. Be paralysed by indecision and uncertainty, drag out the civil war, further break the imperials over your knee. The dominion thanks you for softening up the empire from within, keep up the good work and we may even grant you amnesty when we take all tamriel

The Thalmor only got advantages out of Ulfric's rebellion because it caused a civil war, and weakened the Empire and Skyrim even further. If Ulfric wins, the civil war is over, Skyrim is united again, and the Empire doesn't fight anymore (although they've lost even more territory, political and commercial influence, and manpower. In short, they're pretty much done for if they don't work together with Ulfric & co.). Which means all attention will be directed at the Aldmeri Dominion again. So the Thalmor are only interested in the internal strife the civil war brings, the Dragonborn's interference -which ends the war- is a worst case scenario for them.

Which makes me so torn about the decision for my present character. >_< On one hand, she should do everything in her might to stop the Aldmeri Dominion, on the other hand she doesn't like the Stormcloak jarls (and likes Idgrod and Balgruuf) or even Ulfric as High King. Plus, a lot of Ulfric's men sound like they have been brainwashed. But she really isn't someone to side with the Empire either, her character actually fits the Stormcloaks' ideals. And I'm afraid I'll hate the character if she goes with the Stormcloaks after all.

I'm also waiting for this hidden option in the unrest. (Skyrim and the empire should still collaborate to fight against the AM 'though)

But this is a secret journal that you find locked in a chest in an interrogation room in the basemant of the heavily guarded Thalmor embassy. It can hardly be construed as just propaganda by the Thalmor.

They don't have to expose him directly; of course nobody would believe if the Thalmor proclaim Ulfric assisted them in the battle!

In these cases, you just place proof of his doing into the right hands and the question will sort out by itself.

ulric plans on attacking the thalmor
i listened to all of his speeches in windhelm
i sided with him
after all the legion was planning on beheading me
just because


and i like talos which the legion does not
and that plays into the thalmor designs to destroy talos
then the empire

Do You know that Thorald is from a clan supporting the Stormcloaks?
Why would an Imperial General care about him?

Unfortunately until the Empire declares war against the Thalmor, they need to play alongside them. However after the siege of Windhelm Tullius gives a hint to the Dragonborn that it's going to change soon.



Dear God... I don't know if it's ur English or You really mean it...

1. A lot of Legion members probably worhip Talos secretly but they can't do it openly.
2. How can Thalmor destroy Talos? He is a God...
3. The Empire only signed the treaty bcoz both they and Aldmeri Dominion were exausted by war. It's about politics and other crap. Nords don't get it coz they are stubborn. They kill first and ask questions later.

People need to start seeing the bigger picture.

After struggling with the civil war story in Skyrim, last night I pushed forward and ended up starting Season Unending but wasn't able to get the speech option for the negotiation at High Hrothgar until after joining the Legion and getting the jagged crown. The negotiation was short and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to preserve the status of Markarth because I have a home there but I enjoyed kicking Elenwen out of the meeting. I thought it was good though that there was no Battle For Whiterun and less 'bloodshed' around Skryim because of the way it went down. I ended up finding someone I could support and that was Legate Rikke so was able to keep going and finish the Main Quest. I am so freaking happy today...Skyrim is just awesome and it was all so exciting. There's that feeling of pride that Todd was talking about. He knows his stuff.

OP, I hope you are/were able to do the same and find a path you felt good about. The civil war part is difficult because I struggled with my own feelings about the two sides, neither of which are shining examples, but once you get past it, you have the dragon situation and that's where I wanted to go. That was just an amazing part of the game and capped off many hundreds of hours of play with a great experience. I stayed up way too late because I forgot what time it was. I hope you have a great experience too! Thank you Bethesda. Dovahkiin!!

Because he's...you know...a citizen of the empire.

The empire shouldn't be able to go to its members and declare "You there! You're no longer a citizen, off with your head!(After a bit of wonderful torture)"

Ok, whole civil war on whos right or wrong is all about perspective.

Imperials--sign truce and give ourselfs some time to rebuild and strengthen, although bad side effects of thalmor being every where and knowing hwo well we are strengthing and rebuilding and knowing our weaknesses. Normal rational decision for most people.
Nords---truce be damn! fight til ur last breath and then we'll brag about how many damn elves we killed while feasting in sovengarde. Would rather be wiped out to the last man before bowing down before to the thalmor. eh not so rational decision but does have benefits.

The dossier does bring up more questions and misdirections than answers. Was he a direct asset because he himself was talking to the thalmor or was he talkign to a setup directive that was close to him? Was it the thalmor's and/or secret directive's idea to askk for a safe place to worship in exchange for retaking markarth? If not then that implys that the thalmor/empire was already kidnapping/arresting/tortureing talos worshippers before even the markarth incident. Maybe he was manipulated down a road of events that the thalmor would reap benefits from, like setting himself up to get betrayed by the empire and then manipulating him or stroking his anger against the empire/thalmor then let him escape after his father dies. Thus he has a place to set up and have leadership and figure he alrdy go ahead and rebel.

Or is it that Ulfric did have contact with the Thalmor and saw a way to double cross the thalmor and get revenge against the empire? Basically securing himself a position to where he will be able to get rid or have the manpower to go to war against his enemies. Though it is good to point out that the empire the country itself isnt an "evil' thing, its just that the empire has lost its right to control or rule over Skyrim. Only thing that si said about the countyr itself is that Skyrim will go after the thalmor wherever they are located and will go thru whatever it takes to get at them. Maybe goign into cryodil and desposing the thalmor in the empire own home land will be good pr for him lol.

1. Perhaps because they submitted to the Thalmor?
2. Talos is not a God, he's merely a god. That said, in Mundus a god only have power if people believe in it. So, if enough people believe that a particular spoon has godly powers, so will the Tenth Divine, Spoon, be born, leaving Squee and Spleen behind.
3. It's one thing to sign a peace treaty, completely another to sign up to be a slave. Have you ever wondered "If Aldmeri Dominion got Thalmor in Tamriel, do the Empire have Penitus Oculatus in Summerset Isle?" to which answer is "No"


For the record, I find it incredibly hard to not read it as *dike*us Oculatus. The BGS staff sure is creative in choosing names, and I just found out the logic behind the board's censorship

Hang on, where did you get that Ulfric actually assisted them? What I got out of it was that they tricked Ulfric into thinking info gotten from him through torture helped them win. Really he had nothing to do with their winning.

What proof? Whose hands would not look suspicious holding Thalmor interrogation documents?

1) Just because most Nords wouldn't believe it, doesn't mean they won't have that little nagging feeling in their subconsciousness which keeps on asking "What if ...?". It's called planting seeds of doubts, and a damn good strategy if followed up by other doubt-inducing matters.
2) Eh, they can simply send a thalmor courier with "classified" information (about Ulfric, and some other minor stuff to make it look legit) from A to B, leak this relocation of info to the Stormcloaks somehow, and let things settle themselves. The Stormcloaks will be interested to gather some juicy intel, so they'll go after it anyway. If handled well, the Stormcloaks will get shaken up over it, or at least get confused over it (and confusion is the opponent's best friend).

Penitus (inward) Oculatus (seeing)

Don't forget about the special shout you can learn from Ulfric only by siding with him and assisting the Thalmor. You can see him use this shout on a regular basis after the war. If you side with the Stormcloaks, follow specific speech options, and do not kill any Thalmor. Ulfric will teach you the first two words and that Thalmor embassy chick will teach you the last word. The shout is Fidos-Fluffyios-Hackem.

This translates to Puppies - Kittens - Dismemberment.

It's not fun to witness.

These are Nords. The Stormcloaks are not going to believe some dodgy Thalmor information over their bro. It's silly to think that Ulfric can be blackmailed. The dossier itself argues against this, since it says he's hostile to direct contact. If he was worried about them blackmailing him, he'd be trying to appease them.

No kidding. That's why all the regulars stopped coming here. Everyday people start threads about a subject there are already 20 threads about. No one bothers doing a search to see if it's been discussed already. They just post it like they discovered something new that no one knows about. People have been playing this game since November!! Nothing is new anymore!!

1: If the Thalmor are able to find out who is worshipping Talos, then their plans have been vindicated. Right now, with the shortage of Talos worshippers, people can't afford to be martyrs,
2: Yeah, that seems about right.
3: The Thalmor signed it with the inention of making the Empire a protectorate in all but name. But the Empire signed knowing they could just pretend they were following the Thalmor's orders. And the Peniccus Occulatus is more like the FBI in that it deals with internal security.

Then kick rocks and stop complaining.

Protectorate. Hehe.

In The Infernal City, the Penitus Oculatus was doing foreign reconnaissance. They thought the Thalmor might be responsible for Umbriel.

Thread nannies. They hate the threads, but just can't stop themselves from clicking.

I thought it sounded better than 'vassal state' or 'thrall', don't you think?

And I assumed the PO was responsible for internal security because their name means 'inward seeing'.

If that dossier is your true reason to side with Ulfric in the civil war, you didn't just misunderstand it, you've become an asset to a short sighted, racist war criminal.

Read the book "The Bear of Markarth" and talk to Brunwulf Free-Winter in Windhelm.

Quoting Brunwulf:
"Seems to me they're a bunch of narrow-minded bigots, just like you."

Funny thing about that book. Most of it isn't true at all. Plenty of people in Markarth support the opposite of it, including the jarl, and the forsworn.

Seems you've fallen victim to the imperial propaganda machine.

unngghhhh the irony.

The meaning doesn't matter. When your name rhymes with a synonym of dike, it WILL evolve into that other synonym.

It's like the words ice and ASSet when pronounced by Arnold Schwazenagger.

1. I don't really get this, whose plans? The Thalmor, or the worshipper?
3. The Thalmor planned to eradicate Talos by reducing the number of people that believed in him. It doesn't matter what your condition is: protectorate, slave, etc. The goal is not destroy mean, but to destroy Talos. Men will be destroyed after that (which is easy when you practically have elite agents all over the place)

Also, Penitus Oculatos was born after the Blades was disbanded, the Empire no longer have any other "agent" except for them, while America has CIA along with FBI. This means, even though their name rhymes with dike jokes, they do what the Blades did: which is doing secretive ops, including - supposedly - espionage, and with less whining about dragons at that.

Surely you're not implying that the Blades are nothing but swordsmiths because the name is "Blades"?

Maybe, because I'm not sure what you're referring to?


Hehe, when Brunwulf mentioned it for the first time it put a smile on my face. I like that line