A comparison of Skyrim's and Two Worlds 2's magic systems.

Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:32 pm

I created this thread to compare Skyrim's magic system to two worlds 2's. I found that they were very different and i wanted to compare some key points between them. (I think both games are great, and enjoyed playing both of them)

The reason being is that i personally find two worlds two's magic system more enjoyable. I'm going to list some pros and cons for each magic system and then do an overall comparison. If you feel i missed something or whatnot feel free to tell me! (Please no flaming though) A lot of this is opinion and if you feel different then you can try to change my mind, and i will be open to your opinions.


Skyrim
Spoiler

Pros
  • Has a unique feel to it
  • More unique effects that can be tailored to each spell
  • Easier to balance
  • Easier to understand and get into
Cons
  • Spells are static
  • Lower level spells become useless with no higher level replacements or scaling
  • Casting the same spells over and over again becomes dull
Magic in Skyrim is fairly static, spells will never drastically change. A fireball spell at level 14 is the same when cast at level 55. The only difference is that you can cast it more. The damage will increase and some perks will change how a spell works (twin souls, rune master) but they will never change how i use a spell. Even after perking twin souls, i'm still gonna reanimate the dead in the same situations, just that i'll have two now. With rune master i'm still gonna lay down runes, but now i can be more offensive with them.(though i will admit rune master does change how i use runes a bit, they become useless surprisingly fast.)

The magic in Skyrim is fun. I had a blast using it with my pure mage my first playthrough. The problem arrives when i max out my Destruction skill, have the top tier spells, and i'm only level 24~29. From that point on, it's all downhill. The enemies will be getting stronger while my destruction spells are stagnant.

The way the player is supposed to get over this hurdle is by spreading to other spell trees, like illusion and restoration.(or with 100% casting cost reduction, but then it's a spam fest.)


Two Worlds 2
Spoiler

Pros
  • It's very flexible
  • Room for creativity and experimentation
  • Spells are able to be made stronger so that favorites are useful at higher levels
  • Very large amount of spell effects
Cons
  • somewhat complicated
  • some spells look bland
Magic in Two Worlds is very different from Skyrim. There are no "spells", only cards. You put cards into a spell amulet to create a spell. Their are three types of cards. Carriers, (the form the spell comes in like a missile, in an AOE, or a trap) modifiers (damage,time, and protection), and effect(fire, ice, earth, stone, ect.) cards. Cards can be found on enemies and bought from stores.

Putting a fire effect card and an Aoe carrier card into a spell amulet i create a spell that creates a flash of light that blinds my enemies in a 4m circle around me. If i add a damage modifier card to the mix it creates a spell that does 176 damage in a 4m circle around me. If i then add a time modifier card it creates a spell that does 86 damage per hit for 10.5 seconds in a 4m circle around me.

Some effect cards can get really zany. If i replace that fire effect with an air effect, it creates a spell that showers anvils around me. Adding more fire effects to the card will strengthen the spell's damage, adding more aoe effects increases the range, and adding more time modifiers lengthens the duration.

The spell amulets have tiers so i can create a spell with multiple carriers, like a missile that spawns a monster or a trap.

As you collect more cards and your mana increases and you invest in the right skills, your able to pull off more complex spells and have more varied spells equipped at one time as well as increase the power of your favorites.

Comparison
Spoiler
While Skyrim's magic is very fun, it feels somewhat lacking after i hit masters in a spell tree. My fireball is always going to be the same no matter what i do. I can make it cost less magicka, or do more damage, but i'm still going to use it to do the same thing. In two worlds i can create a spell that does the same thing (Missile carrier, fire effect, damage mod-tier2- Aoe carrier, fire effect, Damage mod) I can even make that spell have a dot, or come out in a spray (3 missiles) and home in on enemies.

In Skyrim magic feels unique, but it doesn't allow you to play how you want exactly how you want to. You have a finite amount of spells to use and if they don't suit your needs then too bad. Two Worlds allows you to build your own spells. Some spells in Two worlds feel bland though, a lot of the effect cards feel like big blobs of colors moving towards the enemy. Though some of the AOE DOT damage spells have some interesting effects.

Conclusion
If i could copy and paste Two worlds magic into Skyrim, i would do so in a heartbeat. I feel as though two worlds gives you the tools to make the product, while Skyrim gives you the product.

Hopefully in an expansion or DLC we can see the magic system be revamped and pumped up to allow more personalizing of spells so my mage won't be exactly like yours.
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kyle pinchen
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:37 pm

Two completely different games that can't be compared.
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Lakyn Ellery
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:28 pm

Two completely different games that can't be compared.

I disagree, i'm comparing one facet of the game, and in a lot of ways, two world's magic system is very similar to oblivion's.

If i was just straight up saying one game was better than the other (which i'm not if i came across as such) i would agree with you. But i think Skyrim could add a magic system similar to two world's without having to be a whole new game.
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:46 pm

Well if you are on the PC I would expect some heavy changes to the magic system once the CK comes out. I haven't played Two Worlds 2 but besides the card aspect your description reminds me a lot of the older Elder Scrolls games.
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Lisa
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:16 am

I loved the magic in TW.And you can compare anything to anything.Even opposites.
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:07 pm

All would be rectified if Bethesda hadn't ditched spellcrafting. :dry:
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Travis
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:50 pm

Of coarse everything else about Two Worlds 2 is so bad that not even it's magic can make up for it. TW2's magic system has some good ideas that probably could have really shined in a better game but Skyrim's system gets the job done and has some fun spells, but everything else is a lot more solid. I couldn't really judge since I could barely play a couple of hours and my taste of magic was meh, coarse all the reviews said that magic doesn't get good until later but Later didn't come.
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Talitha Kukk
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:29 pm

All would be rectified if Bethesda hadn't ditched spellcrafting. :dry:
Most definitely that and the older spells.
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:17 pm

Cutting most magic effects out of magic; and making them weapons, armor, potions, shouts only :laugh:

Skyrim is all about barbarians.
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 pm

Of coarse everything else about Two Worlds 2 is so bad that not even it's magic can make up for it. TW2's magic system has some good ideas that probably could have really shined in a better game but Skyrim's system gets the job done and has some fun spells, but everything else is a lot more solid. I couldn't really judge since I could barely play a couple of hours and my taste of magic was meh, coarse all the reviews said that magic doesn't get good until later but Later didn't come.

Of course i realize that two worlds isn't everyone's ideal game, and i was put off with it at first also, but after you get through the first 3 hours and you start progressing it gets much better. (at least for mages, i haven't played through as a rouge or a warrior yet) It is an acquired taste.
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Christine
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:22 pm

...Or we could bring back spell creation and let us fix any problems ourselves, as well as giving the player tons of freedom.
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Sammygirl500
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:09 pm

...Or we could bring back spell creation and let us fix any problems ourselves, as well as giving the player tons of freedom.

I agree wholeheartedly! But i would like it to not revolve around money and skills. Two worlds did this with cards, another medium that makes it feel unique and not "spread sheety" even though i never though morrowind nor oblivion's spellcrafting was "spreadsheety".
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Ludivine Dupuy
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:15 pm

Actually, with the loss of the attributes, choices in the character, and losses in communication wtih NPCs- Skyrim is a lot more like Two Worlds than it is not. The biggest difference is in the linear nature of two worlds, both 1 and 2. You semi finish an area and move on. You can go back, but there's no challenge in it because there is not the leveling of Bethesda.

But you basically have a hero armed with magic and primitive weapons pursueing evil. I don't see much difference in the character build of Two worlds vs Skryim. That is what Bethesda gave up on.
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Cheryl Rice
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:13 pm

Two completely different games that can't be compared.

everything can be compared, but iv never played two worlds 2 so i can only talk to skyrim's system. skyrim is lacking in effects and the ability to experiment by making your own spells, it is flashy but boring
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Mizz.Jayy
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:47 pm

Ewwwww, Two worlds 2 is a garbage game, the first one was absolutely horrendous, the second one is like adding pink sprinkles to a pile of dog crap, not much better.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:51 pm

Ewwwww, Two worlds 2 is a garbage game, the first one was absolutely horrendous, the second one is like adding pink sprinkles to a pile of dog crap, not much better.

Did you read the post? This thread is not about whether or not two worlds is a good game, it is just a comparison of how Skyrim and two world's handle magic and whether or not skyrim can learn from it.
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:33 am

Of coarse everything else about Two Worlds 2 is so bad that not even it's magic can make up for it. TW2's magic system has some good ideas that probably could have really shined in a better game but Skyrim's system gets the job done and has some fun spells, but everything else is a lot more solid. I couldn't really judge since I could barely play a couple of hours and my taste of magic was meh, coarse all the reviews said that magic doesn't get good until later but Later didn't come.

TW2 ahd a vastly superior magic system.... and a beter crafting system.... and armo( fighter anyways ) was incrediably more diverse.

Although the campaign svcked balls... they did some incredible things with the rpg elements... beter than bethesda ever did.
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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:08 pm

Two Worlds II was a fairly low-budget game with a total lack of polish and poor storyline... but it did some things well. Two Worlds I was... well, awful.

I agree that the magic system was better and much more interesting than Skyrim, or even Oblivion. I also prefer the crafting system.


For those that didn't play TW2 (and if you didn't you missed a decent console action-RPG... it's a genre that's somewhat lacking on consoles, so it's worth picking up at bargain bin price), you actually "crafted" a spell from found magical "cards," rather than just making it at a spellcrafting table.

It required a lot of thought, a lot of exploring/looting, and significant leveling up of your character. But the variations were almost endless. Your level in a school of magic, and certain perks determined how many of each type of card you could use in "building" the spell, and how many "levels" the spell had. Cards did everything from change the base effect (healing, fire damage, ice damage, steal health, etc), to changing the way it was cast (touch, self, target, area), to changing the duration (instant, delayed, over time), to special modifiers (homing missle, trap, etc). And the more cards of the same type you found, the more you could boost the spell- more fire cards meant more fire damage, provided your skill was high enough.

Then the real complexity came when you leveled up enough to put a second "level" onto the spell... in effect, the spell triggered another spell.

So for example, you could create a missle that hit a target and did 30 ice damage instantly. And if you unlocked the second level, you could make the impact trigger 5 homing missile that would seek out the next closest targets for 50 fire damage... great for crowd control. Then, unlock the third level, and the 5 homing missiles would hit, do their damage, and then trigger an explosion on the target that did 25 fire damage within an area. Crowd. Control.

Tell me that isn't an improvement over Skyrim's "what the book says is what you get" model, or even Oblivion's handicapped system.


The crafting, too, was much better, because it also required a lot of exploring (much easier to get materials that way than buy them), and it had the effect of making every weapon you picked up valuable. It also made it much more difficult to power level crafting (leveling didn't work the same way in TW2, but I'm talking about applying it's system to Skyrim) Every weapon could be broken down into components, which were required to make or upgrade weapons. So an Iron dagger might be broken into one piece of iron, one piece of wood, and one piece of leather. It might require 2 of each to upgrade a dagger, so you'd have to find 3 daggers to make an upgraded one... but to get the dagger to the next level, it would take 4 pieces of each. Then 6, and so on. So to make a weapon really powerful, you had to work on leveling it up and crafting it as the game went along... not simply chug a potion and use a single metal ingot. It made a really high-end item feel much more special, since it required more work.

Even the first TW had an interesting take on "crafting" (though it wasn't an actual skill in the game. If you found two identical items- which you did a lot- they could be combined, to create an improved version. So imagine slogging through a dungeon in skyrim, and instead of leaving 15 iron greatswords alongside the corpses of their owners, you picked them all up, and combined them, and combined them... so that by the end you had a level 15 steel greatsword that was equivalent in power to a dwarven or orcish sword. From a lore standpoint it's hard to explain how you're just combining two weapons, but it didn't bother me... the main thing was it made inventory management so much more user friendly because you could just combine like items, and make a single valuable item to sell. Plus it left you with an interesting choice- do I sell this level 15 greatsword... or do I hang onto it and try to keep powering it up? And in TW2, the question was, should I sell it or break it down for parts? Both systems were preferable to Skyrim's "all I can do is sell this junk" model.



Look, I love Skyrim, but I don't let that blind me to the fact that other games do certain things better (or at least have more intriguing ideas that Skyrim could borrow from). I certainly wouldn't mind it if Bethesda played TW before releasing TESVI and incorporated a little bit of the spell/crafting ideas.
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lauraa
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:18 pm

everything can be compared, but iv never played two worlds 2 so i can only talk to skyrim's system. skyrim is lacking in effects and the ability to experiment by making your own spells, it is flashy but boring
Let's compare Skyrim to a banana. They are both yellow, except for Skyrim.

I think that the removal of a number of spell effects and spell creation gutted the magic system.
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KIng James
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:15 pm

If you wanna make spells, I guess your going to have to play oblivion. Also, I liked oblivion's magic because it's offensive spells weren't just elemental spells.
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WYatt REed
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:27 pm

imo, theres just not enough spells
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Eibe Novy
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:48 pm

Too bad two worlds two is one of the most terrible games ever....
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:14 pm

If you wanna make spells, I guess your going to have to play oblivion. Also, I liked oblivion's magic because it's offensive spells weren't just elemental spells.
Im pretty sure through dlcs they will introduce spell making again.
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JaNnatul Naimah
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:16 pm

Of coarse everything else about Two Worlds 2 is so bad that not even it's magic can make up for it. TW2's magic system has some good ideas that probably could have really shined in a better game but Skyrim's system gets the job done and has some fun spells, but everything else is a lot more solid. I couldn't really judge since I could barely play a couple of hours and my taste of magic was meh, coarse all the reviews said that magic doesn't get good until later but Later didn't come.

The soundtrack is awesome....
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Avril Louise
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:18 pm

I honestly enjoyed the magic system in Two Worlds 2. Of course the main point in it was creating spells, which Skyrim took out...

It should definitely be added back.
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Janine Rose
 
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