First of all I want to make a few remarks all of you should take into account before :flamethrower: this topic :

• 1) If you do NOT intend to play Brink in competition or in a team / clan , you better want to skip this topic
  
• 2) As the topic description states , this is a WIP (Work in progress) thread . So it'll be editted regularly
  
• 3) Be polite and have respect for everybody's ideas and creativity

What's the purpose of this project ?

The purpose of thic topic is to create some sort of group or organisation of people that want to play Brink in competition in a proper way.
Furthermore we want to promote Brink as much as possible to attract gamers from all kinds of games to let them get a taste of this unique game.
In the end I would like to come up with a universal ruleset ( and maybe later a mod ?) for leagues and competitions to use .

Think of it as some sort of promod , a mod that nearly every online game that is played in competition has . Before I started this topic I searched and browsed the forums a bit regarding playing Brink in competition. Doing that , I came across a lot of topics where people are hoping Brink will become the next competitive shooter, because over the last couple of years most of the most promising games didn't reach that goal ( not to say , completely failed at that point).

Over the last couple of years a lot of games suffered from this , think of left4dead , bfbc2 , codwaw , mw2 , wolfenstein 2009 , farcry2 (which actually had A LOT of potential), + a bunch of other games I'm forgetting right now. However some games did manage to prevent the competitive scene from dying a silent death . Think about the pam mod for cod2 , the promod for css and cod4 , the confogl for left4dead2 , etc etc. Those mods , rulesets and tools were created by the community for the community. That's what I aim to do with this , get all our faces pointing in the same direction right from the start !

With quite some experience in competitions for different games at all levels , I can honestly say that we (the competitive players) will need something like this

Things that need to be done

I cannot emphasize enough that we still have to wait and see what the game is like , vanilla . In the first couple of weeks after release we'll have to play and play and play (think nobody will find that a bad thing ) to get to know the game better and see where we can improve or what we need to change to make it as attractive as possible while still providing some sort of challenge for the player in se.

The above being said , I think we probably won't have to change anything gameplay related when it comes to balancing weapons and abilities. Bethesda and SD have more expertise and they surely took their time , so I'm expecting it to be very well balanced right from the start.

Things I think we do need to think about :

• As most probably stopwatch will be the preferred gametype for competitions , we have to think about limits to set a time on each map ( given the fact that not all map will be as easy to complete)
  
• Team format ; will we adapt competition to 5v5 ( css , cod4 , w:et ) , 6v6 ( rtcw , tf2 , dod:s) or the chubby 8v8
  
• Class limitations ; not as in completely forbidding a class , but just limited to number of players on a team that can pick that class in order to put the focus on teamwork.
  
• Scoring system : how will we count scores?
  
• Settings that should be forced on or off
  
• (to be completed)

Little note on the side : when it comes to settings for a config , we still don't know the full possibilities of that e.g: what settings can be changed etc.


Things to be done in the meanwhile :

• Contacting admins from different leagues ( in EU the main ones are ESL and Clanbase, don't really know if CEVO and CAL are still that active in NA ?)
  
• As it is likely that an SDK will be released at some point , try and get motivated modders on board.
  
• Share your ideas ( keep in mind that they should be realistic and won't ruin the balance of the game)
  
• (to be completed)

What you can do in the meantime :

• If you feel like helping out a little , you can ! Just post some of your ideas or remarks here
  [snip]

Ongoing discussions

* Max number of players from one class in a team setup
* Restrictions ( personally I wouldn't restrict too much guns right from the start)
* Ready-up system
* Implementation on ALL platforms ( as long as it's just settings , it's possible for all platforms. )
* Hit sounds ( I assume when hitting one in the head ?)
* ...

Let's make this work !

Hope I didn't tl;dr too much of you guys
Last edit : January 12

I'm cool with this thread so let's make it work. One thing that I don't agree with is class limitations. Everyone should be able to to play as whatever they like....of course as long as the objectives are comepleted and they get the job done. Otherwise, I'm behind you on this one.

I'm lost. :blush:

I don't like the idea of being able to switch classes mid-game in a competitive league. I think that if you pick that class and character your stuck with it. Not in the the actual game just in a competitive environment.

I would say a 3v3 and 5v5 format like in ET. Restricting some heavy weapons like the minigun if they are OP in smaller formats than 8v8. Maybe restricting some rules about secondaries, but that also depends on the balance that will be required for smaller teams.

Definetely stopwatch mode, no discussion about that. Probably limiting some maps or work out a simple ban system for maps. (each team can eliminate 1 map f.e.).

Increase/decrease spawn times of both sides, also depends on the balance with smaller teams.

Perhaps tweak damage settings to something suitable for skilled players.

Maybe limit the amount of certain bodytypes in certain types of matches.


I can probably think of more stuff, but not right now.

I agree with Dragin on the switch class subject, if it's gonna be competetive, I think it should be that you're stuck with whatever you chose in the start, but then I also think it should be 8v8, even if it's ''competetive''

And Stopwatch should be the mode you play, both teams do both sides, beat eachothers scores, perfect.

Stopwatch time = Score, better time = better score

Score = Time

Time.

The reason i think you shouldnt be able to switch classes is because if your team can't progress until a barrier is destroyed whats to stop 6 people on the team from switching to soldier and then when the barrier is down they all switch back to what they were.

Also, just spitballing here, force teams to bring in 2 of each class. This would strengthen the idea of a player being an amazing medic and when he looks for a competitive team he lists his role as medic because that's what he's best at. It also lets teams have their members specialize they're character so every person in a game has all their abilities in a certain talent tree.

I might only be saying this cus im a WoW fan but in that game you advertise yourself as a healer, tank, etc.

You should be able to switch classes. If you need an operative at the end of the map to complete a final objective, then it would be ridiculous to have him from the start if he doesn't contribute.
When you limit class switching, you will remove creative gameplay. Everyone will start to use a certain team build.

Edit: with abilities determined before the game, it would likely limit class switching a great deal anyways.

Aaah , think you missed something there. My whole point was what you just said. By limiting for example the number of maximum soldiers on your team, they won't have the possibility to all go soldier , as instead they will have to work really well together as a team to get the objective done. Eventually it will balance out by itself ( soldier being revived/healed by medics , who are then covered by operative or sth like that

1 Engineer
2 Soldiers
2 Medics
1 Operative

The other 2 can go: Operative (max 2), Engineer (max 2), Soldier (max x), Medic (max x)

X being infinite

That sounds pretty okay? Yeah? And that was my idea, feel free to break it down to [censored], and do what you please with it

Nobody's ideas will be broken down , as a matter of fact this will -like a lot of things- take some time and testing.

Yeah alot of ideas tend to be broken down on these forums.

Wouldn't this really only be possible on PC?

I'm not trying to break you down. Just giving my 2 cents ^^

Limiting medics and soldiers would seem more reasonable to me. They are the ones that directly resupply teammates (ammo, health) a medic train was soooooooo effective in ET if performed correctly.

Also 8v8 seems unlikely to me because it would become difficult to communicate effectively. 8v8 also doesn't allow pushing as much as 6v6 or lower. Regrouping and attacking in team doesn't make as much difference then. 8v7 can still be won by those 7 guys, while 3v4 will be much more difficult to pull off.

When making a mod ? YES

But by finding a universal ruleset , competition can also be optimized for consoles (albeit that you'll also have to count on your opponent's honesty at this point)

While I am all for competative play a lot this seems restricting. OP stuff of course can taken out,

I would say limiting medics and operatives would be the best way to go about it. Operatives will have some sort of backstab and stealth. You could face a team with 5 operatives who just go behind enemy lines and backstab everyone. If you've ever played a game with a stealthy class it's so annoying when an entire team uses that class. You just end up getting killed repeatedly out of nowhere over...and over...and over.

How does 8v8 not allow more push? :l

More players = More pushing?

More players to defend with, more players to attack with, perhaps it's becuase I have'nt playe these other Splash Damage games, but I don't see it.

Yeah.. Perhaps Medics and Operatives.. :l

A team that consists of only operatives is not balanced and therefore they will lose. They can't all be disguised, they can't all backstab together and they're not able to efficiently push. A disguise is pretty much useless in competitive setting. In the ET scene, you rarely saw a Covert ops (equals Operative). They were only used to quickly blow up certain side objectives with their satchel charge. If you play with 4 or more in a team, you'll definetely need more than 1 medic anyways, not to mention one or more objective completers.


More players = less pushing in this case. In public matches, pushes will rarely occur. It's more a consistent battlefield and it won't happen too often that you're entire team needs to respawn. Most likely, you'll be able to complete main objectives if you can get to them with 4-5 players. In a competitive setting this is not the case.
I'll explain the basics of a decent push for people who don't know it. First your entire team respawns, you move together, to the point where you're enemy is hiding/defending. You engage a teamfight. You need to wipe out 80-90% of the other team or more AND have atleast 50% of your team survivng. These remaining people then have three choices, depending on where on the map they are.
- They can move the frontlines forward, set-up defensive positions and wait for their team to respawn and join them. They try to harass the other team, while trying to not get damaged, untill the others join them. Probably a new teamfight will occur.
- They can spread out, quickly do a side mission, come back together. Set up defensive positions and wait for the rest of their team.
- If close enough, they try to complete the main objective, while setting up defensive positions.

In competitive gaming (With objective), it rarely occurs that there are only 2 people on a team alive, except just after a teamfight.

To do this, you need a quick and efficient way to kill yourself. A tool to try and time the enemies respawn would help greatly.

I would like to add that this is not the only way competitive gamers play. There's also the medic train or the "slow advance" as we used to call it. However, a lot of this applied to W:ET and I'm not saying that it'll work in Brink because there are a lot more factors you need to take into account, but doing pushes still seems a decent strategy to me.

To come back to you question:
Doing effective offensive pushes is waaaaay more difficult with more players than with fewer, because you need to kill more people, which will take a longer time. This will result in fewer time to complete objectives or regroup with your team. You'll also get pushed back easier, because the other team respawns at max capacity, while a pretty big part of your team will have used health, ammo, pips, ...

Edit: One more thing, before everyone starts hating pushes because it's not in other games: Pushing like I described is only effective because of the respawn in WAVES. It's way more effecitive to have the entire team alive for 3 minutes, than continiously fighting with 5. Atleast in other objective based competitive gaming with respawn waves (Aka W:ET, never played ET:QW competitively)

How about..

*zips up fire-proof suit*

TEAM DEATHMATCH in COMPETETIVE BRINK?

And what happens if a team of operatives can be effective. Your not taking into account player skill. If theres a team full of operatives who go on killing sprees and don't allow enemy players to get to an objective then how can they not win? You would still need 1 of each of the classes but a team of operatives, if played right, can probably demolish teams.

But this scenario applies to any class, and isn't reserved specifically for Operatives.


If this were true, it would only apply to defense and/or an offense map, with only Operative core objectives, which I doubt exists, since every map is going to have more than 1 core objective, and the chances that they are all Operative objectives, is slim.

Your right, but it's only an example.