...continued discussion from Constant removal of features, Pt. 2

Why no Unlock Spell?

Redundant with the lockpick skill

Also one of the stones does give it.

That could've easily been done, but I guess they wanted people to master the art of lockpicking with a lockpick? It doesn't seem fair to the magic types.

No idea, would be economical for a Rogue who uses Magic to supplement his/hers abilities. spend magick sacrifice stealth and concealment but open that chest/Lock and get perks to remove the blow your cover aspect of said spell.


I don't know Skyrim is riddled with teasers, as mentioned the unlock spell is a in a Stone....why not avalible to anyone else?

I can't have crossbows but its a trap and it works...like a crossbow.

I cant have throwing weapons but the dart traps....do exactly that.

I can't have weapon degredation but Smithing benches that functioned like FO3/NV could have been useful.

I can't have spears but their are spear traps in the game, a thrusting animation for dual weilded weapons and a mammoth with spears sticking out of it.

I can't have attributes even though their are bridges and ledges just begging to be jumped across, Bandits to bargain with and put into your service, and Hired thugs that could be scared off, body scales begging for procedural increase/decrease via health/strenght and a roll thats only possible with a perk and while sneaking.

I can't have piecemeal Armorand clothes even though the excuse was to render more NPC's and having unique armor when infact there are like..maybe 10 maybe? armor types with Fur and Hide getting broken up variations that someone with Nifskope could do on their own.

I can't have spell making even though the base destruction spells ARE THE ONLY spells with multiple effects (grand total of two) and that you can reproduce in a heartbeat in past games. and people are trying to tell me Flamethrower and Sparks isnt the sixiest display of power you've ever layed eyes on for the first 10 minutes of Skyrim ;p

Why you troll me Bethesda.

You mean like how it was NEVER fair for the warriors who didnt have thier own method of unlocking boxes?


Every class needs it own or all classes should have 1 shared.

Warriors could have the ability to bash doors and chests open. Sneak types use lockpicks to stay undetected. Magic types use magic because they're already adept in the skill. Seems logical to me.

That would totally defeat the purpose of the lockpick skill and the unlock spell, just like how having the unlock spell defeats the purpose of the lockpick skill and vise versa. People would naturally use w/e is the easiest, which would prboably be bashing and it makes the other two pointless.

Also bashing things open would probably involve having a random chance of a item breaking which isnt fair for warriors.

Why does no one mention dispel being cut? I want dispel back, dangit!

Because it promotes differentiation between skills and builds and archetypes. I'd rather them add some magical locks that can only be opened with a spell which in turn cannot open physical locks than render mostly obsolete a while skill tree with a single tiny part of another skill that does that and much more.

It wouldn't because it's about choice.

I would choose to stay undetected, so I'm going to use a lockpick. You might use your axe to break the lock because you don't care about being detected and could handle any trouble that follows. Someone who uses magic wants to use their unlock spell because they don't have a high lockpicking skill and it's less trouble.

That's called RPGing.

Dispel was probably cut becuase of interaction with spells like wards that are constant cast.

The lore goes on inherent variable, why shouldn't the game? Inherent variable would not exclude anybody from playing any race how they would like. People could still make JoaTs out the wahzoo. I'm not defining how anybody should play, just expanding on how some may like to play, myself not being the only one obviously.

Also, what do you think perk is short for? Perquisites.

Actually lore does not go on anything, the gameplay in the ES series has never been true to lore.

But but...Thu'ums......and..and...Alduin...

Roleplayers would use whatever fits their role, regardless of which was easiest. I kind of like the idea that warriors can bash chests with a risk of damaging the contents. Some chests could be more sturdy than others, some contents could be more easily broken. This could add a whole new and interesting element to gameplay, but I bet it would be a lot of work to program . . . lots of variables.

The [censored] if it hasn't. There have been many exceptions, but in regards to what I posted to whom I was quoting, it is very relevant.

And command, and waterwalking etc, etc.

Unlock Spell: Can't be done silently, thus can be detected.
Lockpicking: Can be done silently, doesn't pause time.
Bash Lock: Can't be done silently, chance to break goods.

If you want to go the easiest that's your deal, but why does a mage or warrior have to put points into a skill they'd rather not use?

The problem is each system would have to be fair and unqiue enough that they dont invalidte the others.

All 3 systems would have to be equally undetctable, and give the same things, which obviously would not happen in the Warriors case as they would be more detectable and probably lose out on items due to a "smash box = possiblity of breaking item variable".


In lore the Thu'um has no known cooldown times, and Alduin was vastly underpowered in his game version.

I dont really mind stuff being removed since Bethesda usually adds stuff to replace them.

The lore you say? Where, when? Inherent you say? Essential? They are so essential many good RPGs do not use them, do not use those and still are very good and functional RPGs. What's so inherent to attributes that makes Skyrim plain not work at all without them?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy – where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context

Origin of "perk" word has no bearing on the subject. Only the current meaning of the word counts. For Skyrim, a perk is some kind of talent, secret trick, magicka induced genetic modification or whatever but bares little relation with the "perquisite" meaning.

where I notice you say usually. tell me this please.


Whats the replacement for Spellmaking?

Weapon Types? since you know...they do exactly what they've done in past games, yes even perks...ala Oblivion.

Piecemeal clothing/Armor? design choice? not being made to look a certain way? because I personally don't consider recoloring of one type of clothing "variety"

Fewer guilds?

gonna leave it at that.

Wait, why do all three systems have to be equally undetectable. That doesn't make any sense. Warriors wearing heavy armor and wielding big hammers usually don't worry that much about being undetectable. And mages could be undetectable casting an unlock spell if they invested points in quiet casting. I don't see your point.

It wouldn't be difficult at all. All you have to do is assign an attribute to containers that tells the engine it takes damage. When it reaches the threshold, the container is unlocked.