Deadric princes are killable : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:28 am

He was never a Daedra. He was still a mortal being that simply made a pact with a Daedra so that he could never die and would simply reform. Difference is that he is still a mortal being, in essence.

Yes, but the ability to reform after ones death is the only thing we know makes the daedra immortal. I have never heard about any other trait they have to prevent death, so unless you have a source that it is something more than their ability to reform my argument still stands.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:43 pm

Yes, but the ability to reform after ones death is the only thing we know makes the daedra immortal. I have never heard about any other trait they have to prevent death, so unless you have a source that it is something more than their ability to reform my argument still stands.

The Daedra didn't participate in the creation of Mundus, then they retain all their original power and traits, that's where their inmortality comes from, and that's the difference between them and the Aedra/mortals.

The High Elves were inmortal, too, before Lorkham interfered (at least they say so, I think). That doiesn't make them daedric creatures.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:02 am

This is all soo interesting! Skyrim Lore 101

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:20 am

The Daedra didn't participate in the creation of Mundus, then they retain all their original power and traits, that's where their inmortality comes from, and that's the difference between them and the Aedra/mortals.

The High Elves were inmortal, too, before Lorkham interfered (at least they say so, I think). That doiesn't make them daedric creatures.

Humans and elves alike are decendants from the Ehlnofey, so I doubt they ever were immortal as elves.

Umaril isn't a daedric creature, but he seems to follow the rules of their immortality regardless. Unless someone can come up with a source that places daedra's immortality on something more than their ability to reform themselves I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible to kill a normal daedra the same way.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:55 pm

Humans and elves alike are decendants from the Ehlnofey, so I doubt they ever were immortal as elves.

Umaril isn't a daedric creature, but he seems to follow the rules of their immortality regardless. Unless someone can come up with a source that places daedra's immortality on something more than their ability to reform themselves I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible to kill a normal daedra the same way.

You can't kill a normal Daedra because they are bound to a prince and his or her realm, and you can't kill a prince because in essence you would need to kill the realm. Even Jyggy who fought against 15 other princes wasn't killed, the best they could manage was a curse.

The only possible way to destroy, or truly kill a prince would be to destroy Mundus itself. Break the wheel so the spokes fall apart and the waters in between cease to exist, and even then it would be doubtful because you would return to a pre-dawn state where everything just is. So I seriously doubt the princes would be dead, instead they would probably just be changed.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Uh. No. The dwemer scorned the Daedra, not the other way around. And some of them still worshiped the Daedra, like Azura(in the Azura and the box in-game book) also, they didn't die from the Daedra. The Dwemer(as confirmed by Devs LONG ago) died from all being absorbed into the Numiundium to make its skin which is also the cause of one the first Dragon Breaks.

Azura and the Box is an "Ancient Tales of the Dwemer" books yes? Those are all lies. There is a book called Dwemer history and culture or something that explains how those books are abut a different race and the author just replaced them with the Dwemer because he was scam

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:27 am

Yes, but the ability to reform after ones death is the only thing we know makes the daedra immortal. I have never heard about any other trait they have to prevent death, so unless you have a source that it is something more than their ability to reform my argument still stands.

The PACT with the daedra made him immortal, he was not a daedra

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:51 am

This topic is a mess

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» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:53 pm

"Aedra are associated with stasis. Daedra represent change. Aedra created the mortal world and are bound to the Earth Bones. Daedra, who cannot create, have the power to change. As part of the divine contract of creation, the Aedra can be killed. Witness Lorkhan and the moons. The protean Daedra, for whom the rules do not apply, can only be banished." - Aedra and Daedra

Aedra can be killed by ceasing their worship. If no one believes, they don't exist. Daedra aren't bound to the bones of the earth by the creation pact, and so cannot be slain.

Daedric Princes can be banished just like the lesser Daedroth though. Just look at the Oblivion Crisis and the banishment of Mehrunes Dagon, and Battlespire where they used his protonymic. Sure, Martin did it all snazzy like, but turning into a Dragon-God is hardly sporting.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:50 am

Umaril is a descendant of the Ehonlfey. He is a Ayleid(other names are Heartland elf and Wild Elf) Ergo, he is still mortal.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:59 pm

the closest thing a daedra comes to death, is sleep

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:31 pm

In oblivion I owned the prince of destruction and he MELTED.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:51 am

You're thinking like a mortal. The Daedric lords and their minions are immortal, if they 'die' their souls are simply sent back to Oblivion to reform, this is one reason why Dadra hoards are often described as "infinite". The only possible twist might be that if a Daedric lord was killed in his own realm- then what? Perhaps his soul simply reforms quicker, or maybe it doesn't reform at all. There are a few instances of Daedric lords going to war with each other, in Shivering Isles Sheogorath tells us that Jyggalag was transformed into the Prince of Madness because the other Daedric lords where too weak to stop him.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:55 am

In oblivion I owned the prince of destruction and he MELTED.

His mortal body melted. His soul returned to Oblivion.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:42 pm

if only someone built a mega soul gem, kinda like the one in oblivion built by... Travan? but bigger, because the princes have been out of their realm before like sanguine. but yeah, still need something to kill him.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:55 am

It is perhaps possible to 'kill' a Daedroth permanently, as regards their existence on Nirn, rather than their self awareness, though even http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vernaccus-and-bourlor he gained a brief and limited ability to interact.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm

And http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-one-eating-birth-dagon by outside agencies.

[Sorry for two posts, can't seem to link properly in an edit.]

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:27 pm

It is perhaps possible to 'kill' a Daedroth permanently, as regards their existence on Nirn, rather than their self awareness, though even http://www.imperial-library.info/content/vernaccus-and-bourlor he gained a brief and limited ability to interact.

He just made the decision not to come back. When a Daedra dies they get send back to the waters of Oblivion, they can eventually return again.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:27 am

He just made the decision not to come back. When a Daedra dies they get send back to the waters of Oblivion, they can eventually return again.

Made the decision, or couldn't? A Daedroth that chooses not to meddle with mortals is pretty unusual (perhaps I should say a Padomaic rather than Daedroth, Jyggalag seems to have no agency or desire for it in Mundus, but he is arguably Anuic, and only counted as one of the Daedra by the strict Altmer meaning of the word).

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Made the decision, or couldn't? A Daedroth that chooses not to meddle with mortals is pretty unusual (perhaps I should say a Padomaic rather than Daedroth, Jyggalag seems to have no agency or desire for it in Mundus, but he is arguably Anuic, and only counted as one of the Daedra by the strict Altmer meaning of the word).

Let's not get into definitions to much here, it could take over the entire thread...

anyway made the decision is probably not the right way to describe it. It's possible that he wasn't able to come back because some overlord held him back, it's possible he had no desire because of what happened last time, it's possible that he returned a million times but never identified himself or the name just never meant anything again, it's possible that this was just a made up story.

Regardless of reasons and options, he if the story is real, is not dead. Daedra after all can not die. Though technically he could be stuck in a piece of Daedric armor somewhere.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:23 am

Let's not get into definitions to much here, it could take over the entire thread...

anyway made the decision is probably not the right way to describe it. It's possible that he wasn't able to come back because some overlord held him back, it's possible he had no desire because of what happened last time, it's possible that he returned a million times but never identified himself or the name just never meant anything again, it's possible that this was just a made up story.

Regardless of reasons and options, he if the story is real, is not dead. Daedra after all can not die. Though technically he could be stuck in a piece of Daedric armor somewhere.

I know; as I said, you couldn't destroy their self awareness, whatever the hell else happened.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:07 am

Umm... mind telling us where you got that information, OP?

The Daedra are not killable, by the way. If, by some freak of nature you managed to kill a Daedric Prince, their soul would just return to the realm of oblivion they inhabit and reform their body. A Soul Gem wouldn't work, since the souls of a Daedric Prince are too big.

Lorkhan, the only Daedric Prince to be confirmed as "dead" required pretty much all of the *other* Daedric Princes to actually do the deed, and we're not sure if he's dead or just unable to reform his body. Remember- Jyggalag was also too powerful, and the best the other Daedric Princes were able to do to him was to turn him into the Prince of Madness, only to return to "normal" once every thousand years or so. What could a single mortal- or even
a race of mortals- do that the combined power of the 13 or 14 other Daedric Princes couldn't?

You're massively wrong on several points:

-Lorkhan was an Aedra, Padomaic perhaps but still an Aedra
-He was killed by the Aedra for tricking them into sacrificing themselves in the creation of Mundus
-The remains of Lorkhans body are the moons Masser and Secunda

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:29 am

You can kill them but they do not die so why try?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:48 pm

to actually kill any deadra you would have to destory it's soul or it will just reform in the "waters of oblivion" and that might not even be possible (in fact, im pretty sure it is not possible or at least would not work that way)

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:44 am

Silly OP spelt the title wrong; you meant to write "daedric princes aren't killable"! And look at the confusion it's caused!