It does not matter if you miss developing a distinct character, or wish the guild quest lines were deep and absorbing; the fans of Skyrim are drowning out any criticism.

I believe the dissent has lost. Bethesda will have no reason to change. The sales alone will let the parent corporation know everything is peachy keeno.

But those of us who loved the countless hours roaming Morrowind and Oblivion, despite their faults of leveling and various issues, know that the Skyrim adventure is not as deep. You cannot spend as much time here- at least, I can't, and I know from reading this forum that others feel the same way. I've two characters and well over 400 hours in. Yes, I know by modern game standards that's excellent. It's certainly better than the latest space attack franchise that sells buckets full and each new game is shorter than the previous. I think they have a half day of play now....I won't say names.

The game is like Fallout in that once you've ran it through two or even several times, there's no real reason to do it again. I could play Oblivion with distinctly different characters and builds and there was no limit. I am still playing Oblivion today. I am still playing Morrowind. But I put Fallout on the shelf and will pick it up perhaps once a year. I tried playing it a month ago and lasted to level 20 or so.... I tried playing Skyrim last night and quit.

So, I realize I'm in a minority on the forum, and perhaps at home too. Every valid perception on a real loss is met with fans of the Skyrim telling us how great perks are, and that acrobatics is gone, and how you can't make your own spells, and Chameleon was for cheaters anyway, long guild initiations were boring and tedious....
If they don't perceive the loss there is no loss. I happen to think many of the fans now might change their minds as they gather more hours in game, but that's just a dim hope.

Whoever Bethesda listened to in making Skyrim, it wasn't me. And perhaps they did right if I'm truly a small minority. They are giving the public what it wants, aren't they?

I don't know whether to be for or against Skyrim as a whole.

I am both a gaming fan and a game production student, and I look at it as a gamer and a developer.

I can't decide whether making Skyrim more "casual" was a good course or not because it sold amazingly well (as it should have), and is still a good game, but lacks a lot of great RPG elements TES once had.

What people do not seem to realise is that, ultimately, we here on the forum are the minority to Bethesda. Let it never be said that there's no profit to be made from the masses. That is why Skyrim is so popular, its more accesible, more "watered" down. We are not that important. Joe blow on the street corner is. Its just business.

This much is obvious. The amount of white knight, Beth can do no wrong, loyalists is as abundant as ever. In the end, apathy and complacency will win the day, with the whole suffering as a consequence. We, in general as the "vocal minority" will often be ignored in favor of the "silent majority".

Have you ever thought that maybe you're just burnt out on gaming? Personally, I feel that way sometimes and then take a few months off and come back and play again. I find Skyrim to be a refreshing change of pace from some of the previous games and I have been gaming for about 25 years now. There are things I miss about Morrowind, Oblivion, Daggerfall, etc, but overall Skyrim adds its own flavour and is one of the more immersive games I have ever played aside from some minor tweaks that need to be made with mods.

Its not worth getting my panties bunched up over though, games evolve for the better or worse and there's nothing you or I can do about it. The entertainment industry has always been this way.

Darkside Eric, That's the boat I'm in. I And for the valid critics- as a group, there is disent. For instance, many mourn the loss of lengthy guild lines, "yet, who needs acrobatics?' They might miss making their own spells, 'but "think jumping high, or chameleon was just ridiculous".

Bethesda used to give everybody what they wanted. I used to marvel at how they were not stingy like other game makers. Somehow, we got on the road of removing assets, and even those who agree can't agree about what was lost. That is a shame that people couldn't leave other people's game experience alone.

i pray not.

action rpg's will not be bought by me. period

There are criticism's all over the board about this game. Most are constructive and well thought out, some are just rants, some are baseless trolling. However, with every opinion offered, you are going to have alternative opinions provided. Just because not everyone agrees with you or affirms your opinion does not mean that everyone disagrees with you.

This game has been number one in our local supermarket since it came out and always sells out, must say something, I always check for some reason

Criticism itself isn't bad, and it is in fact helpful. I'm sure Bethesda does pay attention to its' fans and their wishes.

That said, what's on these forums is very often not criticism. It's more along the lines of "BETHESDA KILLED TES" with no basis for argument, or any suggestions to improve it.

Criticism and complaints didn't win, idiots that think their opinion is the only correct one, and that they're entitled to order Bethesda to make Skyrim how THEY want it to be, because they paid the same price as millions of others.

Skyrim is far more successful than the previous TES games, and it has many facets that are FAR superior than the previous games, in my opinion. Namely combat, which is what makes up 75% of the game. That's a good thing. I don't want to be spending most of my game micro-managing my gear, and jumping through hoops to deal with a broken arm.

In the end, it's okay to complain, criticize, and offer suggestions, as long as you don't act like your opinions are better, or are the only correct ones, and as long as they are actually legit complaints and not whining that you don't like something for no reason.

i think that this is a great game but i also think that it could have been a lot more, it would be stupid for bethesda to think that their game is perfect and doesn't need anything added or fixed in it.

I just wish the perks were earned though leveling the skills. I like to switch from using a sword with some spells to sneaking with a bow from time to time. I started out like a spell sword and now I svck at most schools of magic but at least my heavy armor keeps me safe. I'll just have to get the PC version some day at use cheats to make the experience more like how I like.

OP, I apologize, I misread your statement - hence I deleted mine.

True, Bethesda is an extremely strong developer, but believe me when I say it will get gradualy worse. Bethesda has never (with a few exceptions, IE werewolves), never bothered to bring back a cut feature much beloved, for border line lazy reasons. Spears are a good example, in addition to more factions, improved beast races, even the frackin Dunmer voice (they pulled the exact same move in Oblivion, yay smoker rasp in E3, oh wait...). They don't need to to make sales, that's the key. Where's the motivation to make these changes, obviously not love or care, its money. Can't balme them for that though. Bioware is doing the same thing, and even Rockstar, to a lesser extent.

There is always going to be a core group of people who do not like a game. If it's the same people every time, they might need to find something else to do. There's also going to be a core group of people who love the game, either as is, or just decide to adjust their approach to it or just handle it pragmatically and if the problems within the game aren't game-breaking, that's fine. This is the game the devs wanted to make. After some feedback, they'll make some adjustments with patches and it'll still be the game they want to make. It shouldn't change drastically though...they should stay true to themselves. If I want to play the game I want to make, I'll just have to go out and make one. I hope people find what they like and play it to their heart's content.

Bethesda has already stated that they will begin rolling out patches that improve performance and balance, so they are taking the criticism to heart. Sure, they can't patch the railroaded quests that give you no choices after the fact, but that doesn't mean they won't take that feedback to heart when they do expansions or the next game either.

Feedback is never pointless, if nobody ever looked at a game and thought "This could be better" we'd still be playing Zork.

Other than the PS3 section, the hardware boards are less active than they were with the launch of Oblivion. Of course, since we have pruned threads several times since that games release, it does not look like it now.

I can't see how adding a little bit more depth to the guild questlines(main questline seems acceptable), Oblivion style class customization(within the skill system already here in Skyrim - and even keep the perk system as is), a spell creator system, and an optional PC UI would have resulted in any less sales and quite arguably more. I know it would go a long way to getting me to buy Elder Scrolls 6. I bought this one because I had a good time in the previous one. It's kind of like Movie Sequels. Transformers 2 was far worse a film than the initial one, but did 30-40% more in domestic gross. Mainly due to the great word of mouth that came out from the general public for the first one. Oblivion probably sold well because of the success that was Morrowind.

Big profits and hardcoe RPGs aren't mutually exclusive.

I personally consider New Vegas and DA:O to be hardcoe RPGs, and both were financial successes. It seems Bethesda has taken on a Bioware mindset by thinking the real money is in casual games. And we all know how well trying to appeal to the casuals with DA2 helped Bioware...

Lol too true, to true.

Hey! your wise! I support that message!

I'm with you man.

I don't think Skyrim is a casual game, in fact if anything it's a game that makes casual players spend hardcoe amounts of time playing it.

The only two big criticisms I have of Skyrim are that for a game that promotes itself by saying you'll have a lot of freedom in it it doesn't give you much freedom in how you want to tackle the unfolding situation in quests, and it doesn't give you much freedom in how you want to build a powerful character, since some skills are clearly leagues better than others.

A good PC UI would have also been nice.

There is no reason to act like Skyrim would be any worse if it had all those things. It would be an even better game, and it would make more money in the long run, because Bethesda still gets to sell DLC, addons, GOTY editions, three years down the road throw it on a steam sale... Yes, there are still people who haven't bought it yet, or who might buy more of it, or buy it again who are influenced by those things in their decision.

My take is it's a step back for the RPG but a step up for the wallets of gamesas from the masses of not really RPG fans market for "sorta" RPG action/adventure games.

Bethesda was both- successfull and appealing to serious rpg and SF readers and admirers. Bethesda had money and admiration. In a way, I haven't seen the excitement for a new release since the Beatles were around. Yes, I'm old. The enthusiasm was the same- albeit with a smaller market.

Everyone is going to love this game at first. It does not wear as well as Oblivion and Morrowind. There are still quest lines I haven't completely on Morrowind....my God.