"Dumbed Down' is an inexact term to describe what has happened in Skyrim. We have less choices. NPC interaction is less. Racial distinctions are much less. There are only three attributes to assign. Spell making is gone.

When they say 'dumbed down' they mean the game is for lunkheads- but that's not true. But the game has lost much. In place of these features we have superior graphics, grittier writing and dialogue, two hand wield, and some better game play mechanics.

We're closer to Halo than ever before. But we're not dumb.

Skyrim is dumbed down from what it's predecessors were but unlike other titles out there in the genre that get dumbed down and are worse because of it (Cough Mass Effect, cough). Skyrim largely remains unaffected and is still a great game but not the best RPG ever though.

Oblivion's Attribute/Leveling system was flawed but that could easily be fixed, modders have proven that point over and over again. Instead with Skyrim we get 3 crappy attributes that don't do much at all and a perk system that hardly matters in the long run because a lot of the perks are useless. It's a step in the right direction but Skyrim is nowhere near as good of an RPG as Oblivion and Morrowind were.

Allow me to dumb it down: it is a misnomer. It is an optimization to make something less time intensive and while there are plenty more things to do.

Skyrim isn't any less accessible than its predecessors. One could argue that time is the only restraint when comparing Skyrim to Morrowind, time influencing perception of the game and time needed to accurately access your character, the story, and the gameplay. The same stumbling points for a mainstream audience are present in both games and Bethesda should take steps to eliminate that stumbling point.

VS

Skyrim requires less time investment in order to gain a pay off and suffers from the same problems limiting mass appeal as previous games.

Sometimes there is just a better way to say things. If we all wanted we could speak like it was the 1800's with their over reliance on older speech patterns, or we could speak like it's 2012. The same principle should be applied to all areas of life, if there is a simpler way to do something then do it. Going after complexity for complexities sake is stupid and appeals to people who like crushing their fingers in a vice grip or cannot for the life of them accept that their favorite tedious task has no been removed, or simplified.

Yeah but, it's not the way things used to be and now it's harder for 35 year old social misfits to "role play" the way they want ... waaaaahhhhh

I do all the time and I disagree with you.

< Played Morrowind. Skyrim isn't dumbed down, it's just different.

If another diet of "streamlining" for TES happens it will make the series anorexic and fade away into oblivion.

Might boost sales.

More likely those of the self-styled "hardcoe" RPGers who apparently can't adapt to changing circumstances will be what fades into oblivion ... or rather back to pencils, paper and a table tops bemoaning the fact that "casuals" just "don't get" what a RPG is about.

I have a feeling TES will be around long after these "dinosaurs" are gone.

It looks like it. The CoD culture will reign supreme. The decadence is already obvious.

So is the pretentiousness.

Sharpen your pencil ...

My pencil is always sharpen(I'm an artist and I do that for a living) As for Beth, I hope their eraser last longer than their new direction.

I've never used the phrase that way, or interpreted 'dumbed down' to be an insult against console players. These dumbing down affects are definitely an insult against the PC players though. When in reference to a game being built to be easier for the limited controls and visuals of the TV environment, and thus making it harder or excessively (and unnecessarily) simplistic for the superior PC controls and graphics environment, that is a good example of the definition of 'dumbed down'. But it isn't a jab or insult at console users themselves.

I love how theres all this talk about change and evolution, but not one -solid- example aside from graphics and programming is cited.


[qoute]Yeah because graphics, combat, crafting, companions (just to mention a few) have no hold on gameplay and isn't innovation what so ever. [/qoute]

ah I can tell you didn't read the post through since I cited Combat, AND said graphics != gameplay and don't get me started on Companions and crafting, thats innovation? pfft.

compared to oblivion skyrim didn't feel dumbed down at all. it felt almost the same.
that said i did play oblivion longer at then skyrim, i got bored of skyrim at 170 hours or so, oblivion at like 210 hours. but this doesn't make oblivion better..
i liked the changes to streamlining except the lack of hotkeys for console but i can live with it.

people actually have jobs instead of walk around aimlessly at their place of work or home which was nice.

Gothic 3 did that ages ago

But sometimes its TOO simplified. Like any effect on you that wears off isnt shown on your hud. Having to open the menu to look at it doesnt make it streamlined at all Its a hinderence.

Yeah, sorry, Sotik. I disagree. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Skyrim. In fact, I think I enjoy it more than I enjoyed Oblivion (but not Morrowind... because that was my first TES). However, they removed too much. My biggest "dumbing down" problem is the compass. The journal doesn't give any details about a lot of missions or directions. Instead, you're forced to rely on the compass.

And pants are not "pointless." They add to RP.. and this is an RPG, is it not?... So, there's no reason to remove things that add to RP. People who believe them to be "pointless" won't be bothered.

Even the developers now say that Morrowind was overambitious and was a learning process for them. It had some good things for sure but it also had some really, really bad things. It definitely wasn't as accessible as their newer games to most of the gaming market. There are some things I wish they had kept but for the most part I'm happy with the direction they've taken with the series. I just wish they would work on making the NPC's more interesting. That's the weakest link in the whole process right now.

Hell, you never even know if you've been poisoned or get a disease, becuase there's very little to clue you in to it. I've yet to use a cure poison potion in this game. And never having a clue when buff potions wear off or how much longer they have before they do, svcks. I'd trade a bucketfull of 'realism' for some obvious condition/buff indicators or timers. Toggleable, of course.

Besides, they really help keep yer ass warm, in that frozen nord country.

Cod

Crappy useless Skyrim UI

My, don't understand pants was an joke ) but I do not see them as more pointless than having separate gloves or boots and having more game impact than character customization as it affect enchanting and armor stats while the customization is just look.

And yes it was probably done for two reasons, less objects on screen for consoles to handle and making it easier to design outfits as you don't have clipping issues at the belt.

For the classes, the increase attributes then leveling up has never really worked well. This was pretty visible in Oblivion, Daggerfall and Morrowind had unlimited training and was easy at high level but in Oblivion enemies continue to grow stronger while weapon damage was limited so you wanted +5 on level up and this took focus from gameplay.
Miss attributes but don't see an good way to put them inn.

For spellmaking, yes magic has become less spreadsheetly, it has also become much less interesting as you only uses a couple of spells doing unimpressive damage, while the fancy spells like runes and firewall is pretty useless against higher level enemies.