sorry, but i don't find any evidence in the game indicating that.
his lines are rather indicating his own, personal driven ambitions.
i cannot find anything in him that bears some sort of vision or bigger picture, of how "the nation" should be other than being ruled by him and by nobody else than him.




this is pretty easy to get: just look at some the basic beliefs and principles of the enclave: restoring humanity by cleansing the land of mutants.
eden is the siliconized embodiment of this thought(his ethics did not come out of nowhere, ya know), while autumn moved away from that, realizing his kingdom would be a pretty small one, if he decided to follow edens suggestions.





you've explained what your interpretation of the founding politics behind the enclave is, vast difference.

oh well, i don't think we'll be able to meet each other in this issue, perhaps we should leave it with that, as we're both comparing more our personal views than mere facts.
i do think the way the ncr is represented in the game doesn't leave much need for another moral ambigous, government resembling faction.

I will admit to the description of the Enclave's politics being my own interpretation... because really, it isn't explicitly stated where the developers drew their references for the Enclave's politics from. I did my best to consider the possible sources, fitting the theme, and provide them.

Fair enough.

But the description of Autumn I have given you comes not from me... but from the description provided by the Official Guide, as was stated by the designers of the game. He is not some treacherous despot, but in fact a true patriot unwilling to place the fate of his nation in the metaphorical hands of an AI. This is evidenced by the Holodisk with Eden's destruct code stating: "It'd have to be a last resort, of course, but at least the option is there."

When he learned what Eden's plan was... he decided that the President had gone too far. And he knew that you would either side with Eden to save your own skin, or try to kill him for the death of your father and screwing up your plans for Project Purity.

I'm going to have to say that, while you might want to disagree, I'm fairly certain my statement is correct and backed up by the game and developers.

I might be wrong, so don't swear me to it on my life or anything... but I'm pretty sure I didn't just make it up.

I think the enclave are great. I love the whole shadow government idea.

I would of liked to of seen them in NV but actually been able to get to know them a bit more and do some quests for them.(same size as BOS)

I want them to remain controversial. I don't know if I want to call the whole group evil because they are only doing what they are commanded to do but I don't ever really want to see them change and become good guys.

Their whole pre-war tech presence is also great stuff! They are one of my favorite factions lol.

Brother Hood of Steel in this game admitted that they were done. If that is so how much more could be the Enclave? . If the NCR could kick the Brother Hoods butt now how could the Enclave stand against them? Both are relics of the past and the NCR is the up and comer. Let both die and let the NCR and the Legion or some other great power start a new chapter. Enclave is done like toasted. :violin:

fair enough, i didn't buy the guide, so i had to draw my conclusions from what the game was offering me.
and ingame, there wasn't much that led me into the belief any of his actions could have some sort of ethic-moralic reason.

Aha! So that's where things were getting muddled up! Yeah... I had the guide since day one, and pretty much read the thing through again every time I use the crapper, so I know the plot and characters almost as well as some people know television.

Sad, eh?


On the other hand, we can now agree that we both partially disagree, and say cheers.

I do hope they use the Enclave again, in the future, with a more meaningful purpose than simply being the generic enemy. In fact, I kind've hope the next Fallout game doesn't really HAVE a generic enemy. I mean, in this one, OBVIOUSLY they expect you're going to side against the Legion... but even Caesar isn't entirely generic. The Legion is grossly under-implemented as far as quests go... but the story and plot and all that are actually pretty damn good for them.

You just don't get hardly anything to experience it with.

The same could be said for the Enclave. For instance, if it ever gets completed, http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11587 is a fairly good example of a decent look at the Enclave from their perspective... being that it's a mod which creates an entirely alternate Main Quest.

Me either.
I just pretty much took it that Autumn had gone a bit batty working for the Eden AI and become hell bent on restoring Enclave presence in the Wasteland no matter the cost.

Enclave aren't out-right evil, rather ruthless.

I think the Enclave was'nt as Cruel and Ruthless as in Fallout 3, Fallout 3 just... Made them alot nicer then in 2, And I hope the next game they use (IF they use them..) should NOT have them as generic as they were in 3.

Gosh.

:thumbsup:
This isn't something I've found yet, but its the best way to have done it. IMO

Or we think they were wiped out.

Could have stayed where they came from (unless that was the Poseidon Oil Rig.. In which case i fail.)...

If they did, They could be waiting, I mean Eden died, Autumn died, No military leader left. (That we know of..) So, They could be waiting for another couple years to come out again.

A shame that it haven't been updated for 3 months.

As for why shouldn't the Enclave be everywhere? It just like saying why the hell Caesar's Legion have to be Slavers, and Radroaches and Mole rats everywhere.

I am happy if the future Enclave is about the size of current CL in NV; big enough to join the Main Quest, but not all over the map. (or before the end where they start setting up patrol posts anyways.)

I'm hoping for a small outpost with Enclave remnants or Active Enclave.

Like Navaro outpost.

What you see in FO2 is this...

As a rule I think killing off any faction completely is a bad idea because it closes down so much potential for future storylines, I didn't like the way the Enclave were portrayed in Fallout 3 because as others have said they were a little to obviously the counterpoint to the brotherhood. However again they did it in this game between Cesars legion and NCR, there needs to be some reasons for supporting a faction even if they appear evil they need some sort of redeeming quality because you really don't get far in the world being pure evil without an argument for your cause beyond "because we know better" which seemed to be the entire defence fo Cesars and Enclave in the past two games.

I don't think the Enclave needed to feature in New Vegas any more then they did, I kinda liked hearing bits about them and finding that crashed vertibird surrounded by enclave robots. When you think just how many enclave you ended up killing in fallout 3 I think its definately a case of less is more in New Vegas. However bringing them back out of the shadows in Fallout 4 or at some point in some DLC would be welcome providing they show a bit more of their story then just be the bad guys that need stopping.

I know, I remember killing frank.

( I hav'nt beat the game since 2008 though.)

I liked Frank.

Of course... he had the same voice as Marcus, being Michael Dorn... but still!

Also, I -want- his damn Power Armor! lol.

Seriously! Look at that stuff! He is -precisely- the reason I wish they would let you play as a super mutant.

Frank was pretty awesome.

Aside from the fact he tried to kill me.

I would have liked the Remnants to do more, but I wouldn't have liked to see a full on Enclave faction aside from them. Mainly because it would have made the Remnants less meaningful.

Remnants who accepted the Great War have change America versus Enclave who still dreaming to restore the pre-war America? That sounds cool to me.

Actually the Enclave had no reason to start the Great War considering the US was approaching a victory over China.

Good riddance to the Enclave. I didn't even like them in FO3, it felt like they couldn't think of a proper new group of antagonists so they shoehorned The Enclave in. FO2 was enough Enclave exposure to me, that should have been more or less the end of their story.

Quite the opposite- good riddance, says I.

I think it is still perfectly possible for the Enclave to still exist in 2281, remeber ED-E's mention of a Chicago Outpost and that attached to him is an Illinios licence plate? But the guys need some time, I still find it hard justifying their numbers to myself, after F2 I guessed maybe 200, 30 years later maybe a few more, but they still kept Navarro active? I figured maybe keeping all their eggs in one basket wasn't a smart idea, they figured maybe some [censored] storyline or writing would come along one day and render all their supposed efficency useless so they spread out.

I am the only one who still wants the Enclave to be "villians", I don't mean stormtrooper [censored] like in Fallout 3, I mean still working on the Project? I loved the much more human Enclave in NV and I wish we had seen more of their human side before, the obvious families and children that had to be in Raven Rock etc. but I still really want them to be working on their true goal. Oh well, they obviously can't win or there'd be no more game (unless a Enclave City Builder is your idea of fun, I'd play it!), but yeah they need a chance to rest and get their numbers up. They can't die off surely, right?

I personally cannot stomach the thought that Broken Steel was the last time we see them, that getting their arses' kicked by the underpowered, undergunned, outnumbered Lyon's BoS. That the hieght of US Army tactics when their back was against the wall and it is all or nothing was to just fling stormtroopers at Liberty Prime and fly Vertibirds into it; for god's sake shoot the f**king legs with rockets from behind and let the b****h topple!

I'll say this for the Enclave. Power Armor is certainly more intimidating than leather skirts. Fallout: New Vegas does lose something for having more humanized opposition. But it gains something, too.