Because most people see Morrowind through rosy glasses. There is a double-standard for Morrowind.

Well Ulfric will probably end up wanting to rule the world and Dunmer likes slavery, hard time to decide who's worse but desicions, desicions.

maybe bethesda just made the world more relatable in this installment

I don't see the problem being racism, prejudice or bigotry at all. When I look at the denizens of Windhelm, the motives of the Stormcloaks and the character of Ulfric, all I see is a fierce, nationalistic pride and a sense of honor. Now, I am a huge fan of the Dunmer; I love them, and I always play as one, but even I can see the difference. You have to see it from the Nord perspective.

Anyone who has spent any time around Ulfric or the Stormcloak quest-line, knows how honorable these men and women are. If you've listened to his speeches, talked to him between battles, witnessed the "end" of the civil war, from that perspective it's clear as day. He and his soldiers love their country and they don't want to see its traditions and history walked all over by Thalmor, Imperials or refugees. It's not that they hate the Dunmer, what they hate is the horde of refugees that have flocked to Windhelm-- the once great capitol of Skyrim-- and have brought the city down.

You have to realize how much of a strain that puts on local government. We saw that here in the U.S. after Hurricane Katrina; several cities turned refugees away because they couldn't support them. Then add in the insult that the Empire promised the refugees safe harbor in Windhelm and forced Ulfric to accept them. I think it is commendable that Ulfric gives them sanctuary at all. As for other races, it relates back to nationalism. If you weren't born here, if you weren't raised in Skyrim, you have no place here. I don't think that relates to race at all; it's just that the majority of the other races are in fact foreigners. Nationalism is a powerful feeling for rallying one's countrymen to a cause. I would wager that if an elf was born in Skyrim, was raised as a child of Skyrim, upheld the same pride towards Skyrim that the Nords have, that elf would be gladly welcomed into the rebellion.

As far as his treason is concerned, I don't believe there was treason at all. In Skyrim culture and politics, it is the strong who lead. Ulfric saw weakness in Torygg, and given the conflict with the Thalmor, knew that Skyrim couldn't fare well under the High King. So he challenged his leadership, as is anyone's right, and defeated him in combat. He was the stronger and more skilled warrior; by right the crown is his. But the Empire knew that Ulfric would secede from the Empire, and the Empire would fall to the Thalmor without Skyrim's aid. So they denounced his claim and branded him a traitor.

I do not think he is a power-hungry tyrant. He is a natural leader with a fierce love oh his home and kinsmen. Witness the end of the Stormcloak quest-line. Witness his history and his efforts among the Graybeards.

Without Skyrim the Empire would be weakened substantially. Cyrodiil would probably fall if conflict broke out again. But Skyrim would remain free; Skyrim would not care. Skyrim has repelled elven invaders throughout time and I have no doubts that they would be able to fend of the Aldmeri advance. For these reasons, I respect Ulfric, the Stormcloaks and Skyrim.

I'd say it does, as it's difficult for Beth to make this reference with there being a proper quest based around it. Even if it wasn't true though, I really fail to see why Ulfric should effectively waste his resources aiding a people who seem ambivilent at best to his cause, with most Dunmer either being pro-Imperial or viewing that it isn't their fight. Arguably Ulfric could've gained their support by offering to take back Morrowind after his victory in Skyrim as it would've given him the support of the Dunmer refugees, but that may have angered quite a few of his supporters.

Irl, I'm no fan of nationalism (here in Sweden it tends to go hand in hand with racism, and it worries me how nationalist-racist parties has grown stronger in recent years), so I don't really agree with the political goals of the Stormcloaks. On the other hand I not too fond of the Empire, either, and their way of handling things, so I'm a bit disappointed that I can't stay neutral and still end the war.

Still, fact is, I just CAN'T dislike Ulfric. He's just too well-made as a character, with depth, interesting backstory, great personality and so on.

On the other hand, my favorite Game of Thrones character is Tyrion. And compared to Tyrion, Ulfric is a little angel...

Mine's Theon Greyjoy...

Haha, so true! The whole thing about being able to summon an ancestor guardian for help (actual summon ghost skill in Oblivion and a protection spell in Morrowind and Skyrim) is seriously funny considering their statement about honoring their own kind. Necromancy is bad unless you resurrect daddy's spirit to aid you. Then it's totally ok.

People have too much free time and starts hating fictional things, yes I'm poking to you'll hating.

I have Stormcloak characters, Empire characters, thieves, cutthroats, saints and other sinners, I'm playing a lot of different characters and tries all out without saying "Oh his a little racist, now I hate him and make the fictional world of Skyrim a better places because I kill him".

How do you people justify racism with murder, please enlighten me?

I think part of why Ulfric and the Stormcloaks get those kind of talk because they're a joinable faction where the game askes you to make a choice, inspiring "which one has the right idea?" discussions and people wanting to justify their choice or roleplay it. For Morrowind the comparable thing would be with the Great Houses; there were similar questions, like whether Hlaalu was really the more Empire and foreigner-friendly house because of their Cammona Tong connections, or whether the Telvanni should be considered evil or not, for example. The game also (aside from the Telvanni) almost always put you on the side against the more racist, slaveholding side of the Dunmer.

for me thats evidence enough, why would they have those things, living in a nord controlled area you think they would join the war with there hosts instead of keeping around the oppositions armor.

You're throwing thousands of people together as a single unit. The Dunmer are 'people' just like everyone else, they have criminals, law enforcers, cultures and opposing cultures. Just because one Dark Elf says she doesn't like necromancy doesn't mean she speaks for everyone. If you haven't noticed, there is almost always an NPC that gives you a quest or helps you kill almost every necromancer in Morrowind.

The Nords are based on tall, fair-haired white people, so any semblance of what could be interpreted as racism by them strikes a chord with a lot of folks. I feel like if you kept everything exactly the same in Skyrim except the Nords were replaced with any other TES race (especially one of the non-human ones), there might not be as many cries of "racism".

Good point Icedus, the Nords are the race in Skyrim most easily comparable with a real world equivalent (well Imperials as well maybe). So maybe their racism seems more real to a lot of people. Whereas Argonians telling racist jokes about Khajiit just seems pretty funny to most.

Maybe the owner of the club is a Legion veteran. That one man in Dawnstar wears his armor because he's proud of his service to the Legion, maybe the Dunmer feels the same.

A better question is this: Why would a SPY have Imperial Banners and Armor in his home? Spies are supposed to blend in, and having those things is about the furthest you can be from blending in in Windhelm.

And for the record, Nord does not equal Stormcloak.




A note that you could pick up in the Cornerclub confirming that he was a spy is all you would need to include in the game to provide evidence.

And as for why Ulfric should help people who are ambivalent to their cause, why should the Dunmer seek to help someone who is ambivalent to them? The Stormcloaks are following Ulfric because he's promising a "free" Skyrim, and the rejection of the White-Gold Concordant, but those are things that are appealing to the nationalistic Nords. What is he offering the Dunmer of Windhelm, or any other minority for that matter? Nothing at all, so why should they WANT to help the Stormcloak cause?

As leader of the revolution, it is Ulfric's responsibility to rally people to his cause. If he extended offers to the Dunmer and other people of Skyrim, maybe they'd actually want to join in and help him.

I think it's undoubtable the Legion would have contracted the Dunmer to spy on the Stormcloak activity in Windhelm. It's a no brainer really.

Might never have been openly stated but I'm certain they would have.

Only human races have real world equivalents. Anyways...

When it's just a racist joke, nobody cares and nobody should care. It's just a joke. We don't get riled over when South Park made fun of Asian people or white people or black people. At least we SHOULDN'T. But what Ulfric and Windhelm residents are doing is active racism. It's not a joke for them, they genuinely hate the Dunmer for no good reason.

I don't think it's for no good reason. Just look at the history between Nords and Elves for reasons, poor maybe, but reasons nonetheless for the hatred. Also Altmer seem to get on just fine in Windhelm, which would suggest the problem lies with the Dunmer and their attitude.

Basically...everyone.

Stormcloaks 100% but Ulfric is a little sketchy at times.. I dont think hes evil, i just think he doesnt understand everything hes talking about... i'd prefer we get a new leader and change our names to the Stormcrowns, in honour of Talos.

If that's the case needed to justify racism, then I should not only hate every white person on the planet, but myself included. I'm part Native American, part Scots/Irish.

And I'm certain Ulfric eats children. Might never have been openly stated but I'm certain he does. I'm kidding.

In all seriousness, the Imperials most likely would try and recruit spies, as it's a very good strategy, but without any actual evidence to support the idea, you can't really say there are spies in Windhelm. Unless you're willing to go along with my Ulfric the Child Eater theory.

I can only think of one Imperial spy, and they make it abundantly clear in the game that she is in fact a spy. If there were any spies in Windhelm, I'm certain Bethesda would have supplied evidence to support that fact. There's no point in including espionage and whatnot in a character's backstory and role in the city if the player has no means of ever seeing it.

I did say it was a poor reason didn't I ? Someone stated the racist Nords in Windhelm hated the Dunmer for NO reason, I'm just saying there is one.

One major flaw in the child eater theory, children in Skyrim are immortal. Honestly they should have a child soldier battalion sent in to fight the dragons.

I hate the Stormcloaks simply because they are a threat to the Empire.
In my sight , Empire means:

• United provinces ( More power against the Aldmeri Dominion )
  
• Unification of more races ( No more racist crap )
  
• Strong and good laws
  
• Civilization ( No Barbarians running around with animals on them )

And the main reason is , without the Empire fighting in the Great-War all of the so called "True Nords" would be dead or working as prosttutes to the Mer races.