I don't get it. I see so many people hating on Ulfric and the Stormcloaks for their prejudices against foreigners, but when everybody was still playing Morrowind, most players loved the Dunmer. Yet the Dunmer were far more racist and actually enslaved "inferior" races. Why is it that people hate on the Nords but the Dunmer get a pass? I almost wonder if everybody is just upset here because the Dunmer are the ones being discriminated against.

I'd also say that Ulfric not giving a [censored] about the Dunmer in the Grey quarter is actually justified, considering how they are Imperial spies.

It's not just the supposed 'racism' that ulfric has. He has a certain sliminess about him. I don't believe his intentions are purely for the good of the nords.


Plus, a united Empire is a bigger threat to the Thalmor than an ulfric controlled Skyrim.

Yes there's a racist element to the Stormcloaks, but is the Empire really perfect ? No, it's full of corruption and has racist factions within it as well no doubt.

The Stormcloaks cause is just, a few racists within it shouldn't be enough to blacken their entire movement.

True!

OT: Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are getting a lot of undeserved hate

Well, since the dunmer actually hated non-native dunmer in Morrowind it wasn't strictly racism.

I dislike the Dunmer for their entire bestial culture and hypocrisy, but I see no reason for that to justify another enforcing oppression upon minorities. Therefore I dislike Ulfric and his cause just as much I dislike the Dunmer. It seems however that you are correct in asserting that people that are disliking of Ulfric's racism are very much in favour of the Dunmer. Dunmer have red eyes and look kwl. Aesthetics are the scourge of rationale.

This is somehting I have wondered about myself, truth to be told. I have never found a good answer even though I have tried asking several times.

Any evidence to this claim? I know the New Gnisis Cornerclub has an Imperial Banner and some Imperial Armor, but does that prove any acts of conspiracy or espionage? Even if it does, does it point to the entire Dunmer population of Windhelm being in on the conspiracy?

I never played Morrowind, so I don't know how I would feel about them then, but I really don't think the current Dunmer should pay for what thei ancestors have done - though there must be at least some 200+ year old Dunmer ex-slave owners lurking about. Anyhow they are my favorite race in Skyrim.

Got to agree with that, can't judge a race based on the actions of their ancestors. Well you can but it seems wrong. Otherwise the Imperials are absolute [censored]s after making a pact with Molag Bal in the 2nd era to conquer Tamriel and deserve to pay for that.

I dont discriminate against any race, I simply hate morons, psychos, and arrogant power hungry fools.

So you hate the Mede dynasty then ??

Few more power hungry than them, seizing power when the Empire was weak.
They aren't the Septims, they're just warlords looking for power, they can't and won't unite Tamriel, the Empire is doomed.

Maybe, that is your opinion though and no more or less fact than my own opinion. I dont have much a problem with the stormcloaks, just Ulfric and his delusions.

But back to the OP again I do think there is some hypocrisy to it all but to be fair, racism isnt known for its intelligence, just stupid fears and being really insecure.

It's not an opinion, Titus Mede was a Colovian warlord, he seized power in an armed coup, at a time when the Empire needed stability.

Can't judge based on the actions of ancestors. If that were true, every single human being on this planet are a bunch of biggotted, racist, slavery lovers. If you go back far enough, every human is related to one civilization that has slavery. The Egyptians did it, the Chinese, Monarchy Korea, Romans, 1800s America, etc.

Same with Dunmer. But Ulfric, he's actually actively doing it. He's actively ignoring non-Nord caravans that get sacked. He's actively keeping Argonians from Windhelm. He's actively turning a blind eye to violence against the Dunmer in his city. Not to mention that the Skyrim is for the Nords thing is incredibly racist. It's not patriotic. It's nationalism. Skyrim is home to more than Nords.

But even Brunwulf Free-Winter agrees that the Argonians should stay outside the city, for their own protection. Windhelm was a pretty racist place I imagine even before Ulfric came to power, he's no doubt been influenced by that but he doesn't display any open hatred for other races. He doesn't love them but I don't think he hates them either.

This is what I tell myself every time I go for the empire...

Very true but I remember a time on the Oblivion forums people hated the Dunmer for their racism and enslavement of the beast races and outlanders in general.

The hate came to the Dunmer people as a whole maybe Ulfric receives more attention because he is the figure head of the whole Nord and Stormcloak regime and he is the one who is most open about Nord superiority other than the drunken morons in Windhelm.

Im sorry I should have specified my response, I meant it was your opinion about the empire being doomed. I half agree with your comment about the Mede's taking power as being pretty power hungry but I disagree about stability. Its not like things were to good before hand, a single ruler used force but united the kingdoms and ended civial war. He brought stability via the sword, im not saying I agree completely but regardless it wasnt Titus Mede II who did this.

But we digress from the Op's topic, lets not hijack his thread.

Looks like the tables have turned haha.

If the Empire weren't the Thalmor' actual "little friends", I'd agree with you. But the level of bootlicking the Empire has with the Thalmor is just pathetic.

Besides, I really doubt the Thalmor would ever allow the Empire to recover his military power. And with the most renowned warrior-ish provinces out of it (Hammerfell/Skyrim), and with Morrowind destroyed, and Elsweyr/Valenwood in Thalmor's hands...

The Empire is gone, face it. The brightest hope, if you ask me, is an alliance between a free Skyrim and Hammerfell, maybe with also the help of High Rock.

Honestly I hate the Dunmer, they're hypocritical nationalists. They look down upon anyone who wasn't reared on the same land as them.
And they're greatest cultural taboos all come with clauses, such as; "Necromancy is evil! Well, except when we do it. It's totally fine to bind the soul of a less than faithful cousin to haunt a grave site for eternity, that's just family. BUT RAISING SKELETONS! That's despicable."

all the races have their flaws. In the end the one that's right is the one in control.

numbers may help but they don't always win wars (the thalmor have the numbers) with skyrim in the empires hands being it has the nords the most war ready power of the entire area on the they could win the war based on strategy alone. if you pay attention you will find that the empire has no love for the thalmor infact they wish them gone as much as anyone if not more. it is even said in game that another great war might be looming over the horizon. now think if that were true then skyrim could be in serious trouble if it stood alone against the thalmor unless there strategist are as brilliant as there warriors they have little to no chance at all. if the empire keeps skyrim as a province not only will they have greater numbers but they could also potentially have the military strength needed to defeat the thalmor. if the stormcloaks win skyrim stands alone, if the empire takes it back from the rebels then they have much more on there side.