Hello,

I'm only now starting my first character (Tank / Ranged Weapons Master). I've been planning out Traits / Skills to max / Perks from start to end, but I have a few questions:

-As of the latest patch, are there any Perks that are broken?

-For Perks that increase accuracy (ie: Commando, Sniper, Concentrated Fire, etc) are they really necessary? Assuming endgame Skill Level 100 for Guns / Energy Weapons/ Explosives, even at Long to Very Long range? I ask because if not, there may potentially be other more useful perks to take.

-Is Scrounger worth it? I mean, in F3, it did net me quite a large stockpile of ammo (especially missiles, upwards of 28 or so in just 1 container fairly often) or are there other plentiful sources to negate the need for this perk?

This is a quick, rough list of planned perks for my char:

Level 2: Rapid Reload
Level 4: Comprehension OR Educated
Level 6: Demolition Expert
Level 8: Commando
Level 10: Finesse
Level 12: Sniper
Level 14: Jury Rigging
Level 16: Better Criticals
Level 18: Concentrated Fire, Weapon Handling (To use Heaviest Possible Weapons w/o dedicating too much points to ST) OR Demo Expert
Level 20: Grim Reaper's Sprint
Level 22: Plasma Spaz
Level 24: Math Wrath
Level 26: Laser Commander
Level 28: Nerves of Steel
Level 30: Splash Damage

I would like to get Demo Expert to Max Level 3 if possible (I tend to use Missile Launchers / Grenades a lot)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Cheers!

Perks that are broken.. hmm..

Well sorry to burst your bubble but Demolition Expert and Splash Damage are broken. Demolition Expert is broken because it doesn't include some weapons that should be included, such as the Missile Launcher, while Splash Damage has nothing assigned to it in the G.E.C.K. Ninja's also broken but that won't affect you.

The perks that increase accuracy only increase when in VATS. Since you're going to be using the Missile Launcher and Grenades often, you shouldn't take them. At range, they don't make a lot of difference from what I can tell. Are you planning to rely on VATS more than free aiming?

Scrounger, I can't be sure as I haven't used it in New Vegas yet. Someone else may be able to help you there.

Figures, more broken perks that will probably never get fixed, officially at least. There have been a few patches so far, so I don't understand how Perks like Demo Expert are still not working. I love the Missile Launcher and looking at the damage increase it should supposedly have with this perk would be pretty awesome.

I'll be using mostly VATS like I did in F3 (being a fan of the original fallout games which were turn-based only, I find VATS more enjoyable).

Yeah, the damage with Demolition Expert on the Missile Launcher is pretty awesome.

Since you're going to be V.A.T.S mainly, you may want to drop Laser Commander. It'll make you focus more on Plasma weapons, which have the V.A.T.S perk. Plus, I think focusing yourself on either Laser or Plasma is important depending on your playstyle, but that's just me. Splash Damage is out of the question for sure, so at least you have another perk you have free.

I suggest Comprehension AND Educated,
Educated at lvl 4, Comprehension at lvl 6. Both of those perks are really really awesome.

The patch that's coming soon will be tweaking explosives, so such a build should be a bit more interesting. But I don't know if it'll alter the Demolition Expert perk.

This, comprehension is immensely useful, mostly for the magazines though if you hunt the books it's good for that too, educated is invaluable...

So, you're saying that the Missile Launcher damage does in fact work with the Demo Expert Perk? Your first reply says it's broken =S.

I chose Laser Commander solely because I'd be using the Gatling Laser quite a bit as well, but is the Extra Damage and Crit Chance not worth it? Endgame, I would be using either of the Gauss Rifles Variants or the Matter Modulator in the Energy Weapons category mostly and Gatling Laser for groups.

For Splash Damage, you're saying it doesn't do anything at all? If it did work, combining High Explosive Missiles with that perk, that's what, 60% larger blast radius, plus the damage increase with the HE Missiles.

For Comprehension, I'd only be interested in the extra permanent skill point from Books, chances I would rarely be using Magazines (if at all), but it seems kind of a waste only giving +1 extra point per book read with a maximum of 5 books per skill. And Educated, in the end, would the extra +3 skill points per level even make a noticeable difference?

For Scrounger. Is there anyone that has experience with it in NV? Worth it or waste?

Well, I fixed it for myself of course. :wink_smile: I'm surprised there isn't a fix on the Nexus for it.. I may just want to put it up some day.

The Damage and Crit chance from Laser Commander are very much worth it. I'm not sure how it fares with the Gatling Laser but with the AER14 and RCW, they're pretty awesome. I'd imagine the Gatling Laser is simply a RCW with a bit less damage but more ammunition before reloading.

Splash Damage doesn't work at all, yes. You may not to take it anyways even if it did work since you may be more prone to blowing yourself up. :laugh: I know I sure am, even with just HE missiles. Even again, that's what I get for aiming slightly down.

Comprehension actually helps out quite a lot in lower levels. With it, magazines are a temporary +20 skill so you can use them for passing skill checks on things you aren't going to bother with. As for the extra point per skill book, I would say it's worth it simply because there's more skill points available. New Vegas values skill points a lot more than in Fallout 3 where you can get skills up to 100 relatively easily. With Educated, it may seem small, but it makes quite a difference. In the long run, if you take Educated at level 4, then you get an extra 52 skill points freely, and 52 more from Comprehension. Think about it in the long haul.

Comprehension is useful if you like to try to pass skill checks with a skill that you won't be raising yourself much (like medicine, lockpick, speech)...there are quite a few skill checks that you may regret not being able to pass otherwise (it's how the game often gives you other 'options' of solving/doing things)...so you can leave lockpick at lvl 80 and still open 100 locks, for example. The extra book skill points are less useful if you have a high INT character, imo. I tend to use them because I use a low exp. mod that keeps me from leveling up to max level w/out tons of work, so it's useful to me. But otherwise ... it's more for min/maxing than it is necessary. IMO, of course.

Scrounger - no direct experience with it, but I'd say it's useless because over the course of the game (especially if you gamble or play caravan) you'll end up with so much money there's no need for it. Since you only get perks every other level, I wouldn't use one of them up on it.

P.S. I've never taken Educated and I've never missed it. If you have an extra Perk slot that you need filled, sure, take it...if there's something else you'd rather have, use that instead.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/celica62/New%20Vegas/FalloutNV2011-02-0614-44-30-82.png Yeah, I know that feeling, though I've only experienced it with one character.

Comprehension is actually pretty good regardless of INT. I'm not one of those people who puts INT at 9 / 10 every time I make a character but it is worth it across the board simply because it allows for skill point management to be more forgiving. That's just me though.

It is taking me FOREVER to plan this character out, between Perks that are broken (and will probably never be fixed by official means) and deciding what would and would not be useful. I haven't even begun to think about what my starting SPECIAL stats should be for my build. The only category I've completed planning is traits, in which I took Built to Destroy and Kamikaze. I would like all 9 implants in the end too, along with being able to use Miniguns as well, but that requires a hefty 10 ST.

This is my current perks list so far (Level 18 is a problem for sure):

Level 2: Rapid Reload
Level 4: Comprehension
Level 6: Demolition Expert
Level 8: Commando
Level 10: Finesse
Level 12: Sniper
Level 14: Jury Rigging
Level 16: Better Criticals
Level 18: Concentrated Fire, Weapon Handling OR Demo Expert
Level 20: Grim Reaper's Sprint
Level 22: Plasma Spaz
Level 24: Math Wrath
Level 26: Laser Commander
Level 28: Nerves of Steel
Level 30:

Comprehension is also a good way to pass test (especially Speech), unlock very hard terminals and locks without max skill. Not to mention double crit chance for Real Police Story.


No, no, no and no? This is like the 1st time I have to disagree with you.

Laser Commander is good, if not god send for Tri-beam Laser. Plasma weapon Perks are early level and Laser Commander is just tip of the iceberg.

While Nerves of Steel is better now, you would want high agility to complement it.

Heh...I'd need close that to reach level 25. Altho at the moment I'd need even more, because I keep raising it since I've been using IWS...all the extra baddies means fast leveling even with modifying xp gains per kill + bumpbase by a ton. ::slapface::


I've never had more than 7 INT. I did say that Comprehension was good for the magazine bonuses and that, to me, would be the main reason to take the Perk...I just don't see it as being vital for the extra skill points (a few per skill or something?) if you're not using a low xp mod. *shrug*

@Zyane - I'd help more if I could, but I don't have experience with Explosive oriented characters, I've only played with them a little when having low-explosive skills etc. They were rumored to be weak - certainly enemies using them against me is very weak - plus I like guns too much - so I haven't bothered. But if the next patch does improve them, I may finally roll an explosives character...

Well, I'd like my build to be a Master of Ranged, so I'd be using all 3 weapon skills, especially Energy Weapons and Explosives (of course some Guns too).

If anyone can check out my previous reply with the planned perks list and give advice for starting SPECIAL, taking into account ending with all implants and heavy VATS use (and ability to use Miniguns if possible), feel free to offer advice and add/remove from my perk list.

I thought we had a disagreement on the usefulness of Pack Rat, so I wouldn't say this is the first.

I'm most likely bias since I haven't given Plasma weapons much time compared to Laser. I can only see myself using Plasma with V.A.T.S. usually and that's because I can't lead the projectiles well enough to accurately place shots. That or I've just been drawn to the fact that the AER14 fires green lasers. Weird things get my attention, you know? I'm not sure what changed from Fallout 3 to New Vegas for me, as in 3 I actually used Plasma a lot. Again, weird things. :blush: I guess I just like centering a character around one type of projectile.

Honestly, I have to use the Q35 some more, or the Mutilplas, someday.. May just need a change of pace from all of the lasers.

Since you need an Agility of 7 to get Nerves of Steel, I would say that's already a good enough Agility. Getting an Action Boy / Action Girl perk may do the trick though. Haven't tried Nerves of Steel + 2 ranks of AB / AG but it sounds pretty lethal for a VATS-oriented player.



It kinda feels like I'm not advancing at all when that XP meter moves so slow haha. I probably would make it go last even longer but at that point, I would probably reach my limit of sanity.

If you two can read my 2 previous replies, I'd really appreciate your input... it's helping a good deal =D.

@Zyane - Well...keep in mind that I probably have a fairly odd way of playing/making chrs compared to most (eg, I don't use VATS, so VATS-related perks are useless to me and I like really high CHA, among other things). So I may not be the best for this sort of anolysis. But here's my take on a few things in your list:

Rapid Realod: If you're going to be mostly ranged, I'd get rid of it in favor of something else. It's mostly useful imo for closer combat chr (like shotguns or slower loading pistols/cowboy repeater). But if you're planning/hoping to stay more distant, there's probably better uses for a Perk slot. At chr. lvl-2, if there's no other Perk available that you like, use one rank of Intensive Training to raise a SPECIAL.

Implants: the regeneration implant is terrible, I wouldn't bother with it. It's super-slow and won't help you in combat itself, and for non-combat healing just use sleep or food/aids. This means you only need 8 END for implants. Remember END implant doesn't count towards END requirement for implants, but Intensive Training does.

Minigun/STR - remember you can still equip/use it even without 10 STR, you'll just get more sway/accuracy penalty. Since it's not a rifle, imo who cares really. So if you're low on SPECIAL pts. you could try 7 STR + Weapon Handling for 9STR & just live with a bit of penalty for the minigun. Then you only need 7END for 7 implants...

Jurry Rigging - Since you're trying for a sort of jack of all weapon trades, you might consider skipping this since it requires 90 skill pts which could be better used elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I love Jury Rigging, but caps aren't that hard to come by and thus you could just pay to repair armor and save those skill points for something else. As a ranged chr., your armor won't take much damage most of the time anyway. Consider only 50 Repair for weapon repair kits and leave it at that.

A high Speech is a fairly important skill-check in this game. You can live without it, but you'll miss a lot. eg, if do you care about it, it'll svck up a lot of your skill points so keep that in mind.

Since you seem to be trying for what I'd consider a ranged-focused "power" chr who can get all kinds of perks/skills, SPECIAL might go something like this: (you start with 40pts, right? That's what I'm basing it on, not going to fire the game up to check).

STR - 7 (8 w/implant="10" w/Weapon Handling)
PER - 6 (7 w/implant)
END - 7 (for implants, if you skip the regen one + either skip END implant or use 1 rank of Int. training to boost to 8)
CHA - 1 (companions will be noticeably weaker dmg. wise & less durable than high CHA)
INT - 7 (8 w/implant)
AGI - 6 (7w/implant)
LCK - 6 (7 w/implant)

To be honest, imo you're worrying about a "perfect build" too much. We can tell you something is good/terrible but our tastes may not fit yours. Also, by mid-game 95%-98% combat is easy anyway so it's not like you need to be super optimized to both use most stuff and kick butt.

Yeah, you can tell I'm trying to make a "Tank / Destroyer" type build, but it's quite a stretch compared to what F3 was like. I guess Companions will basically be useless if I set my CH that low (svcks, cuz I find it even more enjoyable with a teammate kicking tail alongside me)? Ending Luck of 10 would be sweet for max crits, but I guess that's not really possible with my build either is it? As for PE, wouldn't starting 5 be fine? None of my perks require more than 6 PE and I will have 6 with the implant.

Wait, I forget; GET RID of Grim Reaper Sprint, it only regenerate 20Ap......

Sure. Just remember though, like LC said, this is quite opinionated. I'm not keen on using VATS all that much, aside from lagging / pressured situations, so what I say may be different from you. Plus, as you can tell, I prefer to play with a focus in mind, not as widespread as what you're going after.

Let's start off with my view on the SPECIAL. LC's got it pretty much on the dot. If you do take Intense Training at level 2, that setup will grant you with all of the requirements in terms of perks once you obtain the implants.

For perks, let's see...

• I'm not sure how useful Demolition Expert will be to you. It honestly depends on what Explosives you are going to use. If you can tell me which ones you plan to use, that would help me a bit, aside from the Missile Launcher. Are you planning to use the various forms of grenades or just the explosive weapons or a mixture? And how much are you planning to use Explosives compared to EW and Guns?
  
• Rapid Reload should be replaced with Intense Training (Endurance), for reasons LC stated.
  
• Jury Rigging may want to be replaced with Scrounger actually. Since you're going to be focusing on mainly big guns, from what I can tell, there's not a lot of options for them with Jury Rigging. You may want to get it though if you're planning to use Power Armor just so you can repair it with Metal Armor. Also, if you go off of experience with Fallout 3's Scrounger, they should be the same thing for the most part. It's useful for lower levels but once you get access to Gun Runners / Van Graffs / BoS, it becomes less useful. Hmm.. what about Vigilant Recycler for your Gatling Laser? I know it sounds silly but it plays the role of Scrounger, partially. On the down side, it requires a hefty skill requirement of 70 Science.... Strong Back perhaps since you're using Big Guns? It'll probably come in more handy for you than Pack Rat.
  
• For your level 18 perk, Weapon Handling for sure.
  
• As for your level 30 perk, I would consider taking Action Boy / Action Girl. You are going to be using VATS quite a bit and it gets really well with Nerves of Steel, as it regens based off of a %. This means that the more AP you have, the more it regens.

Hope that helps a bit.



It could be useful for him. It acts as a regeneration head-start, if you call it that. That way, he can get back to full AP a little bit quicker.

Thanks, I'm much closer to getting just the right SPECIAL / Perks for my build. Here's what it looks like now:

Traits:

Built to Destroy
Kamikaze

Perks:

Level 2: Intense Training (EN)
Level 4: Comprehension
Level 6: Demolition Expert
Level 8: Commando
Level 10: Finesse
Level 12: Sniper
Level 14: Jury Rigging
Level 16: Better Criticals
Level 18: Weapon Handling
Level 20: Grim Reaper's Sprint
Level 22: Plasma Spaz
Level 24: Math Wrath
Level 26: Laser Commander
Level 28: Nerves of Steel
Level 30: Action Boy

Starting SPECIAL:

ST - 7
PE - 5
EN - 6
CH - 4
IN - 7
AG - 6
LK - 5

• I wanted to get all 3 ranks of Demolition Expert, mainly for the huge increase in Missile Launcher Damage (combined with High Explosive Missiles, the damage supposedly reaches quite a high number). Although, I did, in F3 anyway, use Frag / Plasma grenades quite often, and now with the Grenade Launcher and Grenade Machinegun, those too I'm sure.
  
• I went for Jury Rigging because how much easier and affordable it makes repairing weapons/armor. Opens up many more options instead of just using an identical item or weapon repair kits. One of the biggest things that annoyed me in F3, even more so with rare equipment that only had only 1 or a couple duplicates in the entire game.
  
• For Charisma at only 4 (5 with implant), will companions even be of any use, since CH 5 is only 25% Dmg / DR compared to CH 10 which is double at 50%?
  
• if I started with a little less base ST (to devote more into Luck for example for more Crits), how "inaccurate" would the Minigun be if I'm 1 or 2 ST points below the requirement? Hardly noticeable or very noticeable? The 10 ST req for it is quite hefty. Wouldn't doing an extra Intense Training for ST be more worth it, since it increases your carry weight too at the expense of -1 ST for Weapon Req checks from Weapon Handling?
  
• For Nerves of Steel, will raising AG from 6 to 7 with the implant allow me to obtain it? As well as going from base PE of 5 to 6 for Better Criticals and Sniper (which require PE 6).
  
• What do you think about Grim Reaper's Sprint? I mean, it was nerfed pretty hard from F3, +20 AP restored per kill doesn't seem like much.

Feel free to offer more suggestions and tweak my list, I'm dying to start actually playing! =P

Cheers!

For Companions, it depends if you play hardcoe or not; if you do, then you would want to keep your Charisma in reasonable range. Otherwise, feel free to take those points away.

May I also ask what Traits are you looking at?

Too situational to warrant a Perk.

I don't like Weapon Handling, there is a lot of replacement to increase Strength, I rather put another Action Boy for it, or Demolition Expert.

Let's see here:

• In that case, I would probably recommend that you attempt to get all 3 ranks. The weapons you mentioned, aside from the Missile Launcher, are affected by the Demolition Expert perk. Grim Reaper's Sprint may be considered a candidate to be replacing one. Not sure about another perk. to replace.
  
• Jury Rigging's effectiveness depends on what weapons / armors you will be using. Check http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jury_Rigging for the lists.
  
• With 4 Charisma, that'll be able to fight but not last over a battle that's of a notable period unless you keep on injecting stimpacks into them. It also depends on what companions you are going to have tag along with you. If it's melee-based, they may get in the way of your explosives. If it's non-melee, that may work out as they can deal damage from afar and you won't have to worry about them running in your way.
  
• It's not going to be horribly inaccurate if you're under the Strength limit. It's that it'll hinder your ability to reload the weapon as well as it's spread increasing. Of course, this is a minigun also. I don't think you're going for accuracy with a minigun, are you? :tongue:
  
• Yep. Implants work just like Intense Training so it'll count towards requirements for perks.
  
• Refer below.

Hm. Guess so. Though in those situations, it would be pretty useful. I think where GRS will shine is during mutil-enemy battles. You know: Kill one in VATS, gain 20 AP, rinse and repeat. Nerves of Steel + Action Boy / Action Girl is the way to go though overall. Less dependency on situations, as you said.

Oh, and his traits are on that post above yours. For convenience though, they are Built to Destroy and Kamikaze.

So close, I can feel it.

• I've never used the GECK, but is it difficult to modify values myself so that the Missile Launcher correctly takes advantage of the extra damage from the Demo Expert Perk (all levels)?
  
• I'm probably not going to be playing on hardcoe, but I will be starting off on and staying on Very Hard difficulty (like I always did with F3).
  
• I replaced GRS with a 2nd Demo Expert, proving to be difficult finding a spot for a 3rd. Then again, if the perk doesn't work with the Missile Launcher as it's supposed to, and it isn't easy to manually fix it, I guess this could be a little useless for me.

Here's the revised list:

Perks:

Level 2: Intense Training (EN)
Level 4: Comprehension
Level 6: Demolition Expert
Level 8: Commando
Level 10: Finesse
Level 12: Sniper
Level 14: Jury Rigging
Level 16: Better Criticals
Level 18: Weapon Handling
Level 20: Demolition Expert
Level 22: Plasma Spaz
Level 24: Math Wrath
Level 26: Laser Commander
Level 28: Nerves of Steel
Level 30: Action Boy

SPECIAL:

ST - 7
PE - 5
EN - 6
CH - 4
IN - 7
AG - 6
LK - 5

Point out any modifications to either Perk or Stats list, I've looked at it so much now that I have a brain freeze =P.