Another interesting observation: The bouncing stops when you get 4096 units away from them. I can't reproduce this anymore, very strange.

Anyone knows what happens when you get 4096 units away from an actor? Do they switch to middle high AI processing or something? Does Havok treat them differently? I fired the horse up in the air with SetPos z and Havok Physics still did it's work and made it land. Yet the horse does go up a little in the air when I get over the 4096 range. Does it turn off inverse kinetics?

I suppose going back to Oblivion is an option, after all we have everything: we have the best tools, large amount of resources, tamriel heighmaps et all. even the unmentionable mod is getting better with each release they do, and now also integrated into Tamriel worldspace...just a thought.

Its a definite possibility. I would like to stick at Skyrim for a while though, with an optimistic hope that either Bethesda will fix things or there will be viable workarounds (not splitting the world up as that would be silly).

Well, for me personally going back to Oblivion is not an option, but I can't speak for the rest of the MERP team.

I first want to do everything to find a fix or a viable workaround.

If it works along the Y axis, I can't help but feel that it's a simple fix somewhere. Doubt it's anywhere we can do anything about it, though.

This bouncing stuff sound an awful lot like the bug in Oblivion that would crop up if uGridsToLoad was changed to something larger than 5. Have any of you changed that value in your ini files at all?

I found a way to create a dirty fix, calling TCL on an actor (so not toggling TCL for all) fixes the bug for that actor (since it turns off Havok Physics for that actor). However, this means that when an actor gets off the ground (jumping or falling off of something) it will stay in the air. Now, I'm pretty sure it will be possible to create some smart scripts that detect when this happens and then temporarily turn TCL on for that actor until it hits the ground, then immediately toggles it off again.

Actors with TCL off do move along terrain correctly, it's not like they walk in a straight line into the air when they walk off a slope. So it's dirty fix, but I think eventually the script can be made good enough to almost never run into issues. We'll probably have to wait for additional scripting commands and functions from the SKSE team though.


Heh, in fact I did... I'll check it out.

doesn't seem to make a difference.

Make sure you check that with a new game. uGridsToLoad sticks to your save.

I know, I did...

I have not messed with the ini entries, but it still happens for me so thats unlikely to be the reason.

I uploaded a video of the bug in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndePb5jEO4&feature=youtu.be

Also added it to the OP. Realize this doesn't only affect total conversions, any project trying to add lands West or East of Tamriel will run into this bug as well.

@Megfear - Oh yes. I'm beginning to feel very depressed. Unless this bug is a lot simpler for Bethesda to patch in the Skyrim basecode than I think it will be, the all-Tamriel heightmap is dead in the water.

Let's keep lobbying for a fix then, everyone whose project is affected.

I'm still wondering why it does not affect the player character though. I think if we find out we may construct a real fix.

Random Thought.

If you merge your worldspace into Skyrim.esm, then load it up and go out that far, does the issues still happen?

Man this just keeps getting better and better with this CK [censored]. Brand new game engine my ass. it seems like it's all just bolted on code, refined a bit here and there and the bugs not fixed from previous incarnations of the toolset. I've been contemplating for days going back to Oblivion. At least there I have a working project almost complete, working exporters and a somewhat working Construction Set (thanks to the CS extender which is ironic in itself).

Why not create another worldspace for the other provinces? Because of the sheer size, a load screen would seem reasonable to me.

Annoying that this is looking difficult to fix. I just hope the devs take note as this may be a deal breaker for many of us. I have tested in world with several creatures, Npcs etc but it continues to happen so it looks like its across the board with those types.

DEVS: please take note of this.

I want to run my own tests on this, I am making a dummy 6x1 quad world, what is the cell border where this happens?

Outside the 64x64 central grid, that is a 4 quad square, so far as I know. I went out way beyond that testing somewhere around -150,-90 or thereabouts. I have an unedited ini file, run mesogea.esm with a plugin to add the horses.

Is there anything in the .lod file that we copied out of the bsa and hex edited? or is the hex code purely for LOD?

Not 64x64, that implies that the second one is an Y coordinate.

It happens in any cell with an X coordinate less than -64 or higher than 64. Using my worldspace as an example, the areas in red are affected:

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8141/problemarea.png

Yep, I was testing it would this afternoon.

i copied in a worldspace to the Skyrim.esm, that didn't help either.


It is such a weird error. When they stand still the NPCs are fine...but as soon as they walk its as if the collision is gone.

I wonder if a Dev might comment on this, to give us some idea of where the problem sits. If its just the x axis that's at issue there must be something specific to that, triggered beyond the 64 cell limit. What controls havok within the 64x x 64y limit that stops or is not read beyond the 64x64 block but only on the X axis.

I posted an update in the unofficial bug list specifying where and how the problem occurs. Have a look and correct me if wrong.

Just for frame of reference, how big is 4 quads in comparison to Skyrim?

Skyrim plus all the extra land around it is about 4x4 quads....the actualy game area is a little bigger then 2x2 quads.

By all the land around it you mean the whole 2/3 of Tamriel LOD, or just until the LOD starts (and if so, where is that point?)?