Wasn't published (though that doesn't carry weight with either of us)

Why would that be stupid? It could be a million to one longshot to begin with (who knows?).

Here though... http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul
Some of this must be considered for its source, but the basics are there, though it would seem to me that an attempt has been made to blend disparate canon accounts.

**Personally ~ on the "confusion" point in that article... For me, Cain trumps Taylor (even though honestly, they should be equal or even Taylor trump Cain). :shrug:
It would seem to me (meaning "so what" right? :laugh:) that there would be no FEV ~initially, at Necropolis, but tremendous radiation. In the years that follow, I could see FEV spreading it's way across the land and arriving there, but wouldn't the transformation have already been underway?

Harold is not a ghoul, he is an FEV mutant, and his transformation began happening within hours, and finished up while he was in the HUB.
(so... one to two months tops?). Being dipped in the VAT changes you in minutes (as seen in real time in FO1). So it would seem that if FEV were part of the change, then the change would not have likely taken years.

:thumbsup:

If your radiation level would be maxed, i think you should be able to start changing, so yes, i wouldnt mind it being in the game.

Those that would not want to change should keep a sharp eye on the radiation meter, and the ones that are dying to become Ghouls should then start swimming in whatever irradiated water source they can find.

But as somebody mentioned before already, adding tons of dialogue just because you're a Ghoul would be extremely hard and time consuming.

Well, if you are going off of "Ghouls are caused by radiation with no FEV involved", then, to me, it would be inevitable that ghoulification would not only occur in scattered areas across the country, but in places where radiation is similar to what we've seen in the U.S. Given what we know about ghouls, the origin of Underworld was very plausible. On the other hand, one thing that does confuse me is that they are called ghouls on the other side of the country too. That was definitely one of the more evident plot holes in Fallout 3.

Hmmm... I would say that (firstly) no one knows if it would happen twice, and secondly, you would need radiation levels similar or equal to the war (when the bombs hit and their vault door stayed open).

**They are [likely :hehe:] called ghouls for the same reason that DC uses Bottlecaps instead minted coin (from the few hundred bank vaults in DC).

***Bottlecaps were local to the HUB. :shrug:

Still, the point is that the appearance of ghouls with origins outside of Vault 12 is not really retconning, considering that it was never said that all ghouls had to come from Vault 12. I take back that it would have been stupid if it was a one of a kind mutation from Necropolis, but non-Vault 12 ghouls would have existed even if Van Buren ended up being created.

Personnally I just pretend to myself that moira turned into a ghoul because she was already exposed to high levels of radiation. The Megaton explosion just tipped her over the edge. It was daft how they decided to do that though.

Any chance there could be FEV all over the world? It'd be cool to see European ghouls.

If (hypothetically speaking), Vault 12 was unique and the change was a bizarre fluke of synchronicity, then there would not be any other ghouls in the Fallout setting. This works with Fallout 1 & 2. :shrug:
and in FO3 and 4... Ghouls would likely be extinct (as victims of a long gone [noncontagious] disease). That wouldn't work well for a game trying to identify with the previous games, but it could work fine for a game trying to broaden the setting to areas beyond the desert, but without bringing all of FO2's local culture with it. Think about this (still hypothetical)... Would Fallout 3 have been poorer for lack of Ghouls & Bottle caps? Would those new to the series miss them in the least? Had the principles at work of the earlier games been applied to the new setting, we would have seen a Fallout game on the East Coast that had the same atmosphere, (possibly even the same "IT") that the West Coast games had, but with an entirely new setting. In FO1 caps were what they had, in DC Coins are what they have ~could have used Golden Eagles as currency. Ghouls are anomaly of the West, Mirelurk are an anomaly of the East.

*(Technically so are Supermutants and Enclave <_<)


I think she was already a mutant.

I definitely agree with you, on pretty much all accounts. I still love Fallout 3 for what it is, though. Speaking of Mirelurks, I am confused as to why they were shown in the NV trailer. Why the hell is a crab mutation in Las Vegas? That is much more far fetched than ghouls on the east coast.

FONV is done.
Maybe Mutation for F4 but not for FONV.

she was in springvale... a NUCLEAR bomb went off less than a mile from her........ her skin would get blown off a lot if she survived

Originally lore stated that the FEV created ghouls, not just radiation. In fact the FEV created most of the mutated animals in F 1&2.

but still, a nuclear bomb went off like rigt beside her... she is missing skin... technically she isnt a ghoul.... just a look a like

Well, half-true.
Airborn mutated FEV/ airborn unpure FEV to be precise.
Every single organic life-form that is not from an isolated vault is a mutant because every single one of them have this mutated FEV strain in their system.
So The Courier, unless he is from a vault recently then he's also a mutant.
House might be one of the few exceptions to this. Maybe that's why he isolates himself.

Vault Tech. CEO Well in that case isn't every single civilized ghoul in fallout 3 and it's DLC's people who have lost their skin? As in humans who have survived being flailed? (She looks identical to them, I think it's just that her throat/vocal cords haven't rotten away yet, making her voice just the same as before)
She is a ghoul, how does a bomb blow off all of your skin?

i guess but idk, but i still think it would be fun....

Of course it would be fun to play as a ghoul but it has to make sense and follow lore and be something that isn't cheap/rushed.
Becoming a ghoul in New Vegas isn't entirely impossible.
If they wanted to create an expansion with enough dialogue and redesigning the game for it then I guess they could.
But it's highly improbable.

Let's just hope it's in fallout 4 shall we? :foodndrink:

:foodndrink: hopefully, mybe.... just maybe theyll see his and be like "hey, we should do that"

I really think people should stop using "the lore says no" as an argument against new ghouls. The lore i.e. what we are basing arguments on was invented by someone that controled the IP and what we know is what we have been told by the IP controler. Bethesda now controls the IP and if they decided that certain ghouls can procreate that were previously unknown about, new ghouls can come about in certain parts of the world that just remained unknown for so long or even that Supermutants are all created from a guy named George it will become the new "lore" by which all the fans understand the world.

The only question we as fans really need to ask is, could it happen? Could a ghoul be created after the war or could a ghoul for some reason or mutation not be sterile and the answer is yes it could happen, even on our planet we are still discovering new life and new concepts on how things were created so to assume the lore of a fictional world is absolute is an unrealistic expectation. Now if you just don't like the idea, cool but trying to twsit an argument into its not possible because someone else told me so when I first learned about the world is just silly.

So Bethesda can basically go "Screw the old lore it doesn't mean [censored] since we have new lore that breaks the old lore but since we now own the IP we decide lore so shut up and accept the new lore"?

Great way to keep the old fans! :goodjob:

World won't end because they say ghouls can be made after the war, get some perspective.

I agree with this, if Ghoulification could happen once, logically it must be able to happen again - Some input of Stimuli, be it nukes, FEV, a combination thereof or something else, created them at one point, and if the same formula, or similar enough formula is mixed, then you have ghouls again.

Having Ghouls from a different source, therefore doesn't break lore.

I think it makes perfect sense that there is some mad scientist out there, possibly a ghoul himself, running experiments on "normals" to try and work out what this magic formula is, so he can reverse it.

The same thread was used to an extent in tactics with FEV.

Uh-huh.

This is Fallout. The World can't end - because it already did.

Actually I don't think ghouls being made after the war is against canon, but ghoulification happening less than a few years is. There is still enough radiated spots that can lead to ghoulification from prolonged exposure. Necropolis' ghouls were made from radiation leaking into their vault cause the door didn't close properly or at all.

Also if Bethesda is going to just rewrite canon drastically, why did they bother wasting money on a franchise name rather than just make their own from scratch? I really doubt they will since they bought Fallout cause they like the setting. (aside from Mothership Zeta's log entry :glare: )

Originally the first designer said that it was radiation only, (and the Wiki states that Chris Avelone ultimately sided with this).

Strongly disagree. The lore is part of why they bought it, and adhering to established convention is what maintains a sense of reality in a fictional world. ~Keeps Mario from becoming a tall Emo stereotype with chaps. Keeps the master Chief as a 7' Spartan that cannot pull off his helmet at the end of the game and have secretly been a woman all along. What was in the first games should be set in stone, what was not in the first games is the rest of the country and what happened there... but its bad form to have established events happen differently or not at all in a later work that is implied to be the same world a few years later ~this destroys any respect for the setting.

Ghouls are sterile ~its canon. Ghouls are not going to pass on the genetic plans to create another ghoul any more than a human burn victim will give birth to another burn victim. :shrug:


Same Stimuli ~yet no one really knows what it was (Tim Cain said Radiation caused it). Could be that radiation there caused it, could be the exact kind of radiations there that caused it.

**Ha, come to think of it... Those few that were turned into Ghouls could conceivably have had the ultimate 'special encounter' that only happened once, and changed their lives. :laugh:

I don't dispute this, because I agree with it, but I consider it to be as unlikely as the Necropolis Ghouls in the first place, and do not see why those Ghouls could not merely be a local phenomenon that doesn't (or hasn't happened elsewhere). Its actually a bit curious why Ghouls are not treated as any other enemy that existed before, but is not wanted in the new game. :shrug:

Ghouls are not a race, according to the series history, they are just people that were altered by the radiation waves that hit the necropolis.