Sorry, wrong idea. Continue with your regularly scheduled thread....

The Constellation is an Anvil, It wouldn't have made much sense to separate it at the top. It's more common sense to realize you can't go backwards in a perk tree. E.g., Going from a level 100 perk down to a level 90 perk.

I agree with you. The Smithing perk tree makes absolute sense. I fail to understand people that say it's broken, and even further, why only now that there are mass threads about it being "broken"?

I think the main point to take away from this is that you don't HAVE to exploit crafting to the fullest. Maybe use a weaker mix of enchantments/potions to make your glass gear as strong as the deadric would've been. The overpowered crafting synergies leave you the flexibility to make ANYTHING work. Weapons are purely aesthetic at this point; any weapon can be as strong or weak as you want it to be.

Actually TDS, that's a good point I hadn't thought of.

To the people who say "WTF I can't make dragon weapons" I say "if you read the perks some clearly say *upgrade armor and weapons*and others say *upgrade armor*, so it's your problem for not reading the perk." Along the same lines, if they looked at the perk closely (which you should always do, for every perk in a tree, if you are going to be climbing that tree), they would see that dragon is 100 and daedric is 90.

While the shape of the skill tree isn't enough to make someone reasonably think they can't go from dragon to daedric, the 100/90 thing is.

And here I was thinking you were only a troll. You're a troll with a good point. And apparently so am I. >

Funny, you caught it before I edited it.

I completely agree, I am meerly speaking in generalities. I am simply saying that if you do not take the time to actually look at the perks and just glance, I can see why people would make the mistake of thinking that can continue on in a "Circle-type-fashion". Obviously we know this is the case because of how many people are doing it. Don't get me wrong, i am not making any sort of justification here, again, I dont think it needs to be changed at all, it is their own fault for not looking at it more closely. The only thing I am saying, is i an see how people are making the mistake...

personally, i find it strange that a master smither that has learned daedric crafting wouldn't be able to also learn elven.

Personally, I find it strange that you can become a master by crafting a thousand iron daggers, or at the least that you'd become proficient at crafting armor by crafting a thousand iron daggers.

It's a game mechanic. It's not supposed to be real.

It's very simple. Forging heavy armor is a vastly different art than with light armor, with very different materials and reactions. I think it was brilliantly designed.

It's definitely not broken. Some people are just unhappy about how it works and prefer to say 'broken' rather than deal with the way it is designed.

You are absolutely correct. The Smithing Perk Tree is designed perfectly, it only appears "broken" or "misleading" if you don't actually look at it up close. It makes perfect sense that you shouldn't go down from a level 100 perk to a level 90 perk of an entirely different class.

It makes sense that you'd need knowledge of the other heavy materials to be able to gain the knowledge of how Daedric material works. It wouldn't make any sense to go backwards from the light armor side of the skill tree, because your character effectively knows nothing about heavy armor and weapons.

Too bad i can't do that with my Shiv....

OP: the tree i fine as it is... just take the heavy perks if you want Daedric stuff and don't

LOL.

It doesn't make sense that weapons, being not categorized in any way whatsoever, have to be locked with armor

Heavy Armor and Light Armor both already have their cons and pros, there is no need to cap light armor users at Glass, especially because between Glass and Daedric War Axe, there is no difference except for base damage and looks

If you think "Light Armor users already benefit from lighter weight" then I'm sorry to say that Heavy Armor users have a skill that eliminates the problem altogether, so the point is kinda moot at later levels, and at lower levels the difference of damage received is negligible between low armor points and high armor points

Smithing is flawed in that it does not provide Dragon level weapons, and thus Light Armor users are in disadvantage. Personally, I think either Dragon and Daedric should be switched, or Dragon level weapons should be introduced. Both parties WILL be happy with that

As about how come people can think of going around from Dragon to Daedric, I'd say that it has a lot to do with weapons not categorized in anything, and as such people have the great concept of Light Armor + Daedric Weapons when they begin, which is perfectly possible in Oblivion

I see you didn't even bother to read my second paragraph. My opinion still stands. It nakes perfect sense that you should have to have knowledge of how to work other metals before you know how to forge Daedric items. Armor or weapons, it's still the same material.

You managed to know how to work on bones by knowing how to work on glass. Really, it doesn't even TRY to make any sense

can you tell me how you do this please, or pm me if its a spoiler? I'm one of the few ppl who think iron equipment is the best looking

I was sad to find out that Dragon was inferior to Daedric and there were no weapons. I think that is the flaw in Smithing as you pointed out.

I didn't say anything about obtaining materials, but learning how to use them. From an RP perspective it makes sense that learning the "easier to handle" matierials comes first.

I also think they should not have made the tree appear to be a circle, but have seperate Heavy & Light Dragon perks at the tops of the respecitve side of the tree (well not exactly a circle. It's supposed to be an anvil, but they could have heavy & light perks for dragon next to eachother but not connected to keep the shape). And have weapons in each (maybe even the same weapons only armor being different) and superior to Daedric since it is at the top.

And I never said anything about one thing being cheaper to make than any other.

Just use these console commands -
player.removeperk
and
player.addperk

Perk IDs are here
http://www.gamefront.com/skyrim-pc-item-codes/

Remove the light side, and go up to dragon on the heavy. Note that you have to go in the order of the tree, so start by removing glass, then scaled, etc. and then adding from dwemer to orcish to ebony and so on. Dragon light armor + daedric weapons.

I'd say if you're going to use enchanting and alchemy to buff smithing though, weapon type becomes completely irrelevant as they'll all do a ton of damage. But if you prefer the look of daedric weapons, you could do the above. If you're on PC anyway.

Smithing is fine if you don't over do it with exploits. I love the people on these forums that complain about being overpowered and the game is too easy. you find out they are using weapons with 10K to 20K Dmg. Well there is the answer....Don't blame BGS for breaking the game for themselves.

This. Daedric equipment IS Ebony equipment + Daedric heart (in game and in lore - slightly more complex in lore). You can't craft Daedric without knowing how to craft Ebony. If you're worried about upgrading your Daedric equipment, chug those smithing potions. At 100 Smithing, you can already upgrade them 4 times without any additional boosts.

Hilarious how people argue that a circle isnt a circle and that it makes sense for a circle not to behave like a circle.

I swear, some people, you could give them a ketchup sandwich, tell them its mustard and theyll defend to the death the existence of red mustard.

I'm pretty sure the perks are only for crafting, I've improved a glass sword before I was able to craft glass material, so if you have smithing 100 and have gone the light side perks, you should be able to improve a daedric bow, you just can't make it.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with "There's a lot more light armors that can not be improved through perks..." since as far as I know you can have legendary fur if you wish. Not exactly sure what the "improve them twice as much" in the perk descriptions means, since if you have 100 smithing and you make fur armor and improve it isn't it legendary anyway? Never tried making starting armors legendary so I'm not sure.

I can see your other points but they had to start the tree somewhere so they picked steel. I do wish they would have put steel plate under steel with a skill level requirement. Have the steel plate versions greyed out until you reach X skill in smithing. X being the level you need for advanced armors in light. And if they would have seperated dragon armors into light and heavy with seperate perks (both at top but not connected and both with the same weapons) there wouldn't be the confusion some have with it. And make dragon the most effective since it is at the top or move the heavy version below daedric if lore requires daedric to be the best.