Yet even choosing to simply not smith was never an option in the previous TES titles when it came to spell crafting. The spells system was designed with the expectation that you would. If you didn't most spells ended up woefully under-powered and nearly useless. Not the case with every spells, but healing and damage certainly suffered from it.

In any case, a system like smithing for spell crafting might not be so bad. Atleast then you would have to acquire skills in it and spend perk points in it that could have been used elsewhere. Then there is still a sense of reward because you earned the ability to make the spell through levels and practice. Just having spell creation handed to you is nothing like this.

I agree with the part that finding that special item is rewarding. It could be the same for certain spells. It is that way in Skyrim with the shouts. But after you get the spell you should be able to create your own spell. It allows you to use your character like an individual, somebody that uses what they want that suits their style. It is good if you have whatever arcane art you posses to gain more from it in creating what you wish. It deepened the entire experience of being a spell user.

my post above this one is in response to this, sorry on my phone and I hit the wrong thing and did not notice it.

I do miss the Spell Merchants. The Spell Tomes just don't work for me in the game. I liked just being able to find the person who sold the spell and then buy it. Of course, finding that person was not always easy, but that's a good thing. Then some spell merchants would not sell to you based on faction affiliation or rank. So, it was a challenge to learn some spells.

As for spells and levels, the Magic Skills takes care of that, as in you might know of the Spells or even have the Spell "formula" or cadence, but you are unable to cast it until you are ready. Can you cast high level spells in this game at a low skill level? I have not tried as my current character is magic averse.

I remember all of that. It was one thing I lived about the mages guild in Morrowind. I like the tomes its makes things more I guess arcane, it makes sense a wizard would have several spell tomes and study them. I know I have a few and its just hood for ny roleplaying to have them laying around my houses.

I don't mind having spell vendors, but like spell crafting, I feel it takes away from the reward of finding new spells if these are your only options for acquiring them. I think the magic system in Skyrim would be much improved if there were more spells that you could find via quests and exploration than there are available from merchants. I enjoy finding new gear during my travels, I'd like to have the same experience with my seplls. Visiting a merchant and buying the spell just isn't as fun.

And yes you can cast higher level spells if you have the magica and you can manage to find them. Merchants tend to magically acquire the higher level spells as you gain more skill in the particular school.

I agree with both the removal of spell crafting and how they new system wasn't taken far enough. I want to see a variety of spells on the level of games like Baldur's Gate hidden throughout Skyrim waiting to be found.

i do have to say i agree with you on some things here and i was on the WTFNOSPELLCREATION bandwagon,

yes there should be more spells being found in dungeons and yes there should be more spells
the part that got me was you shouldnt be able to buy high level spells from ANY vendor. you should but only from magically trained vendors. other wise with the current level scaling of critters and monsters mages are going to get slaughtered.

but i like the general idea

EDIT: i dont think your idea should stop at just spells either it should go for mage apparell as well.

How about a bigger variety and (better yet) Novice-master levels of EVERY spell (I like my flamethrower spell, why the hell should I have to switch to fireball just to do more damage?).

How about this. We know in the Elder Scrolls you have to have the effect before you can craft it. So how about you have to find certain effects and the more powerful spells in the wilderness. Then you could use the effects you found in spell creation.

I don't really miss the spell creation aspect as it wasn't my speed, but not being able to purchase advanced spells just because my skill level is low is frustrating to say the least. I'm assuming this is done to prevent people from just enchanting armor to drop mana costs and spamming hi-power spells with little to no time investment, but it is a drag to be stuck with novice Destruction spells up to or around 40+ skill.

This is an example of where one might suggest spell creation as the solution, but I still think that there is a solution in the system that is already available without having to sacrifice any reward part that comes with exploration. (though I concede to the argument about making spell making a skill, that is a viable solution I think) Perks, for instance, can be used to represent specialization in both particular spell types as well as particular spells.

I would be satisfied if it were both like this and had a skill factor. Just finding a spell and being able to do anything you want with it would be like finding a sword and never having to find another because you can make any blade you want now. If you found a new spells, then you could craft with it. The effects of that crafting would depend upon how good you are at spell crafting.

That way you have to practice and gain levels in order to make better spells and just because you found a new spell doesn't mean you've suddenly made every other spell like it in the game obsolete because you can craft it. That would be a great compromise that doesn't eliminate the sense of reward from acquiring new spells, even if you choose to craft.

Magic becomes so boring after only a few builds with all of the cut effects and spell making. A real step back for magic.

I was for the removal of spell-crafting back when we were being told we'd be able to combine two different spells into one for cool combo effects (like in the one video where detect life in one hand and fire bolt in the other created a life-seeking firebolt) but as it is it rings pretty hollow.

That is my thoughts on the matter. There is just no substance to magic at all in Skyrim.

@ Uday finding effects would be great, we do however need the depth of spell creation and more spell effects.

I liked being able to make the best possible speel for my lvl of expertise, or lack there of.

I think that adding more spell effects and more spells in general (Maybe even more delivery ways) would be better than adding the Spellcrafting as we knew it. I always hated the fact that to be a mage (Specially because the stock spells svcked in leveled Oblivion) I needed to play with the numbers until something satisfactory (and that fit my pocket) was made.

Maybe they could do both. Add spells, spell effects and delivery ways while, at the same time, adding a more "user-friendly" (Not dumbed down or streamlined for what matter) Spellcreation that doesn't require you to game the game to do satisfactory spells at high levels.

Since when was spell creation not user friendly? It was the same damn system as enchanting, and nobody complained about that. Nobody even said anything about having problems understanding SC until Todd spouted that spread-sheety BS. SC was not complicated in any ES. You could do some complicated stuff with it, but to use it to be effective with any magic style in previous games was not. Not really directed to anybody, but I had to say that.

I don't agree with doing away with spell-making. I think people should have the ability to make spells of immense power, however, I think that the ability to create such powerful spells should be based on a level/reward system. Or perhaps a perk of some sort? Basically you should have something besides money in order to create very powerful spells. I like the idea of vendors only selling the basic spells. I generally play a warrior/rogue class and I think it's a bit unrealistic that I should be able to obtain the same kind of spells as a powerful mage of a similar level. It doesn't really make any sense.

They should just add back spell making and it's all fine. Spell making is what makes the mage experience in TES stand out from other RPGs.

Removing spell making just makes the game move more to the generic RPG side.

I'm not saying it was complicated, I could use it without any problems. What I'm trying to say (Maybe I worded it wrong) is that it was necessary to add and tweak many effects to have a functional combat spell at higher-level Oblivion. High Fire Damage Magnitude wasn't enough (It would simple be a Mana-svcker), you need Weakness to Fire (Preferably in a hot-keyed separated spell) and Fire Damage at certain level to not be Mana-svcker and be Functional. You need a Shock and Ice set too, because of immunity.

With User-Friendly I was thinking if there was another way of presenting SpellCreation (Specially to new players) witouth dumbing it down and still having it to be a maneagable and customisable way of creating spells without the need of tweaks, weakness and more tweaks.

As a RP and Mage Support thing SpellCreation was amazing. But it was heavily needed if you wanted to do any good amount of damage at high-level Oblivion. A "problem" that could be simple resolved with more powerful Stock Spells. Still, I don't think that I explained myself right.

If we had more spells, spell making and spell combination (The thing that should happen when you Dual-Wield different spells) Skyrim's Magic System would Rock.

I understand, but that's more about how magic didnt scale well in previous games, specifically Destruction, not really SC. Although duration was your friend in previous Destruction based crafted spells. It was lower magicka, so you didnt have to exploit magicka fortification, and since weakness didnt stack, like you mentioned, it was viable at higher levels. This was less of a problem in Morrowind though, since Destruction worked better than it did in Oblivion.

That's what makes spell making fantastic. You have to think twice before making a spell. Like how to get the most cost efficient spell, which effects should be put together, etc.

Now you just buy every spell from the merchant and don't need much thinking.

I think that you is right. Maybe I'm seeing to much into the SC itself when the problem was more it the scaling of Destruction.

@jelf22

What I'm saying is that in previous titles (Mainly Oblivion) there was a need to do some specific tweaks and use some specific effects just to make high-level magic combat more viable without armor and the others mage's weakness.

The SC should be there to infinitely add to the magic experience, not to be a required tool to tweaking spells so you could survive a unbalanced high-level combat. If you just needed to use SC to be creative and enjoy magic, it would be cool, but it was needed to eventually play as a mage if you wanted to survive. To me magic was too depended on it while it should only increment and add to magic.